Gilded and painted Keris for viewing

Gavin Nugent · 18th November 2009, 02:24 AM

I have had this piece sitting aside for some time now and it has sparked a lot of interest with fellow collectors I speak to externally from the forum so I thought others would also like to view it.
Although my knowledge is very limited in comparrision to the knowledge base here, I know what I like and painted scabbard Keris are something I have always found very appealling and will continue to put these painted examples aside in my collections.
Here is an example I favour very much, the scabbard is gilded and painted, the blade is unusual in form and the pamor is what I beleive to be expertly controlled.
Comments and input is most welcome.

Gav

Rick · 18th November 2009, 02:31 AM

Hey Gav,
How about a full picture of the blade .

The painting ... nice .

Gavin Nugent · 18th November 2009, 02:48 AM

Rick, Full blade image, though it doesn't quite show the pamor following the edge in layers all the way to the tip....

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2009, 02:59 AM

Nice.

These Bali sunggingan are really pretty scarce.

I mean really scarce.

Gavin Nugent · 18th November 2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Nice.

These Bali sunggingan are really pretty scarce.

I mean really scarce.

Wow, thank you Alan, I knew it was a good thing when I found it but hearing that makes it ace! They are beautiful.

Do you think in a previous life the hilt would have been painted/gilded? Or is it more typical to have them left as it currently sits?

Best regards

Gav.

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2009, 04:01 AM

In the Balinese ones I've seen the hilt seems to bear no relationship at all to the wrongko.

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 01:08 AM

Gents,

Another aspect that drew me to this piece was the blades quality.

I know there are many different representation of style in this area of the blade but this shape is new to my eyes. An almost human like shape to one side and flames rising on the other?

Not being very savy with keris terms, does the unusual form of the blade at the forte inticate anything in particular such as region in Bali, age of the blade or status of the owner?

Best regards

Gav

Rick · 19th November 2009, 01:58 AM

Agree, the pecetan (Jawa term) seems to be executed a bit differently .

The luks seem a little strange .

Otherwise, are you referring to the pamor ?

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 02:23 AM

Rick,

In general just the first four inches from the hilt as a whole I find interesting and unusual, the "fullers" the shapes, dips and curves.

I think for me, differentiating pamor or the subtle luks is beyond my understandings to be able to grasp fully,

but I am willing to listen if the information can be offered as it would be interesting to know and it would offer points of reference for my own readings when time permits. Others might also want to know these technical aspects of this piece

Best

Gav

David · 19th November 2009, 02:33 AM

It's certainly a nice blade, but i don't find the fullers all that unusual for a Bali blade.
I also have a old Bali sunggingan that i will post in the next day or so. Interestingly mine does have a hilt which has also been painted in relation to the sheath.

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 02:54 AM

Great David,

I look forward to viewing it.

I agree Bali Keris do have fullers similar to this and in these positions but there are subtle differences in the flow and depth of the curves that my eyes are drawn too. It may be nothing but I thought to ask. I'll try to get some comparative images of the other Bali keris blade I have here to see if I can highlight it better. It may just be a case of the pamor on this piece making it look different.

Regards

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 19th November 2009, 03:35 AM

I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade.

The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style.

To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade.

What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

David · 19th November 2009, 03:45 AM

OK, i did manage to find a couple of photos that i already took of this sheath. I will have to take some more to show the whole sheath and the whole hilt. You can see the the hilt has some of the same red paint as the sheath. The pommel is similarly painted. Not in as good condition as Gav's but i think this one might be just a bit older.

A. G. Maisey · 19th November 2009, 06:22 AM

Yep. Nice too.

Any of these old Bali sunggingans are very, very collectable.

Gavin Nugent · 19th November 2009, 07:07 AM

Another I secured recently, still to be posted to me, new or old I couldn't say but the wear looked honest enough without going into too much detail.

I'll submit more images when it arrives.

Thanks for posting the images David, I really enjoy looking at these pieces something the eyes can enjoy all day.

All the best Gav

PS guys, if you got em show them I would love to see more diverstity in painting or gilding.

Marcokeris · 19th November 2009, 07:08 AM

all very nice

VVV · 19th November 2009, 10:13 AM

Thanks for sharing.
Here is another, more simple, one as a reference.

Michael

Marcokeris · 19th November 2009, 01:35 PM

Very hard in Bali to find, in my experience, so nice dress.
(price ...are really very high

)

Sajen · 19th November 2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Very hard in Bali to find, in my experience, so nice dress.
(price ...are really very high

)

This I can confirm! All four are very nice!

David · 19th November 2009, 06:43 PM

Can anyone speak to the place of these painted sheaths culturally? Where these reserved for specific societal stations or could anyone own one?

A. G. Maisey · 20th November 2009, 03:37 AM

We're looking at Bali keris here, I cannot answer this question. However, for Javanese keris, although some particular person, such as cantung balung, or an actor, may wear a sunggingan keris, nobles also wear them on some occasions, the colour of the sunggingan work and pendok being designated to the rank of the wearer.

I've got a pretty fair small collection of quality sunggingan keris, I'm a bit busy right now, but as soon as I get a chance I'll make some pics available

Sajen · 20th November 2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Can anyone speak to the place of these painted sheaths culturally? Where these reserved for specific societal stations or could anyone own one?

1994 I have seen one in an antique shop in Klungkung for sale. When I come back two days later the owner have rent it to someone who want to be married.

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 21st November 2009, 01:03 AM

In Bali marriage keris are usually the most flamboyant that one can afford. I know one Bali bloke who virtually mortgaged his house to put together a glorious keris for his marriage. Gold, emeralds, rubies --- chocolate layer cake with cream and cherries. After his marriage it took him several years to sell it at a loss. It was offered to me, but I could not afford it.

Gavin Nugent · 14th December 2009, 01:21 PM

Another Bali Sunggingan

A better group of images of the one above.

I will enjoy viewing more diversity in these pieces when you get to yours Alan.

Enjoy.

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 14th December 2009, 10:42 PM

This is nice art work, but I most sincerely doubt that this type of Balinese sunggingan work is traditional. It is the most popular style for newly done sungging work that is specifically offered to collectors. I have never seen an old sunggingan scabbard with this style of decoration --- or more correctly, I have never seen old sunggingan work of this style.

Gavin Nugent · 15th December 2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is nice art work, but I most sincerely doubt that this type of Balinese sunggingan work is traditional. It is the most popular style for newly done sungging work that is specifically offered to collectors. I have never seen an old sunggingan scabbard with this style of decoration --- or more correctly, I have never seen old sunggingan work of this style.

I would agree this is 20th century work Alan, the presence of a whitish undercoat exposed where some old paint has fallen away, this is what would make me think the same. There is a small sticker to the blade that reads "Antique Blade, hand painted Bali keris".
Needless to say, as you note the art work is nice. it is very detailed and attractive to the eye, well my eye.
Any direction with the blade, it does appear to have nice age to it.

Best

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2009, 02:41 AM

Yes, the keris is old, and very probably the scabbard, but I'd guess the sunggingan work as 1970's.

Kiai Carita · 15th December 2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, the keris is old, and very probably the scabbard, but I'd guess the sunggingan work as 1970's.

If you examine closely is it watercolour and ink covered by a spray varnish? This method of sungging began to become common in the 1980s.

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2009, 09:36 AM

You're better than me Kiai, I can't tell what materials have been used for the sungging work from a photo, but wouldn't argue about the time frame, 1980's is near enough to 1970's in my book. The point is this:- its not old paint work.

Gavin Nugent · 15th December 2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiai Carita

If you examine closely is it watercolour and ink covered by a spray varnish? This method of sungging began to become common in the 1980s.

Interesting and quite possible, varnish or lacquer would explain the way in which the paint has flaked and appears rippled in a few small patches.
Being a very time intensive task to create what they have, I'd be interested in seeing or learning more about the processes involved in decorating these sheaths either new or old now I have presented both.

Gav

18th November 2009, 02:24 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Gilded and painted Keris for viewing I have had this piece sitting aside for some time now and it has sparked a lot of interest with fellow collectors I speak to externally from the forum so I thought others would also like to view it. Although my knowledge is very limited in comparrision to the knowledge base here, I know what I like and painted scabbard Keris are something I have always found very appealling and will continue to put these painted examples aside in my collections. Here is an example I favour very much, the scabbard is gilded and painted, the blade is unusual in form and the pamor is what I beleive to be expertly controlled. Comments and input is most welcome. Gav Attached Images

18th November 2009, 02:48 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Full blade. Rick, Full blade image, though it doesn't quite show the pamor following the edge in layers all the way to the tip.... Gav Attached Images

19th November 2009, 01:08 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The blade Gents, Another aspect that drew me to this piece was the blades quality. I know there are many different representation of style in this area of the blade but this shape is new to my eyes. An almost human like shape to one side and flames rising on the other? Not being very savy with keris terms, does the unusual form of the blade at the forte inticate anything in particular such as region in Bali, age of the blade or status of the owner? Best regards Gav

19th November 2009, 02:23 AM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	The blade; Rick, In general just the first four inches from the hilt as a whole I find interesting and unusual, the "fullers" the shapes, dips and curves. I think for me, differentiating pamor or the subtle luks is beyond my understandings to be able to grasp fully, but I am willing to listen if the information can be offered as it would be interesting to know and it would offer points of reference for my own readings when time permits. Others might also want to know these technical aspects of this piece Best Gav

19th November 2009, 02:54 AM	#11
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Nice to see another Great David, I look forward to viewing it. I agree Bali Keris do have fullers similar to this and in these positions but there are subtle differences in the flow and depth of the curves that my eyes are drawn too. It may be nothing but I thought to ask. I'll try to get some comparative images of the other Bali keris blade I have here to see if I can highlight it better. It may just be a case of the pamor on this piece making it look different. Regards Gav

18th November 2009, 02:31 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Hey Gav, How about a full picture of the blade . The painting ... nice .

18th November 2009, 02:59 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Nice. These Bali sunggingan are really pretty scarce. I mean really scarce.

18th November 2009, 04:01 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	In the Balinese ones I've seen the hilt seems to bear no relationship at all to the wrongko.

19th November 2009, 01:58 AM	#8
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Agree, the pecetan (Jawa term) seems to be executed a bit differently . The luks seem a little strange . Otherwise, are you referring to the pamor ?

19th November 2009, 02:33 AM	#10
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	It's certainly a nice blade, but i don't find the fullers all that unusual for a Bali blade. I also have a old Bali sunggingan that i will post in the next day or so. Interestingly mine does have a hilt which has also been painted in relation to the sheath.

19th November 2009, 03:35 AM	#12
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	I can see nothing unusual at all in this blade. The garap is fair average quality for a Bali blade of this vintage. There are minor artistic shortcomings that really do not bear mention, and can simply be written off as the maker's style. To my eyes its just a pretty usual sort of old Bali blade. What makes the whole thing nice is the old blade + old sunggingan in pretty good condition + the sunggingan is well preserved + the blade has what appears to be a nice old stain + the hilt is not bad either. As a total package its pretty nice and very scarce.

19th November 2009, 03:45 AM	#13
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	OK, i did manage to find a couple of photos that i already took of this sheath. I will have to take some more to show the whole sheath and the whole hilt. You can see the the hilt has some of the same red paint as the sheath. The pommel is similarly painted. Not in as good condition as Gav's but i think this one might be just a bit older. Attached Images

19th November 2009, 06:22 AM	#14
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yep. Nice too. Any of these old Bali sunggingans are very, very collectable.

19th November 2009, 07:07 AM	#15
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Another painted scabbard and hilt Another I secured recently, still to be posted to me, new or old I couldn't say but the wear looked honest enough without going into too much detail. I'll submit more images when it arrives. Thanks for posting the images David, I really enjoy looking at these pieces something the eyes can enjoy all day. All the best Gav PS guys, if you got em show them I would love to see more diverstity in painting or gilding. Attached Images

19th November 2009, 07:08 AM	#16
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	all very nice Last edited by Marcokeris; 19th November 2009 at 01:38 PM.

19th November 2009, 10:13 AM	#17
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for sharing. Here is another, more simple, one as a reference. Michael Attached Images

19th November 2009, 01:35 PM	#18
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Very hard in Bali to find, in my experience, so nice dress. (price ...are really very high )

19th November 2009, 06:43 PM	#20
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,124	Can anyone speak to the place of these painted sheaths culturally? Where these reserved for specific societal stations or could anyone own one?

20th November 2009, 03:37 AM	#21
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	We're looking at Bali keris here, I cannot answer this question. However, for Javanese keris, although some particular person, such as cantung balung, or an actor, may wear a sunggingan keris, nobles also wear them on some occasions, the colour of the sunggingan work and pendok being designated to the rank of the wearer. I've got a pretty fair small collection of quality sunggingan keris, I'm a bit busy right now, but as soon as I get a chance I'll make some pics available

21st November 2009, 01:03 AM	#23
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	In Bali marriage keris are usually the most flamboyant that one can afford. I know one Bali bloke who virtually mortgaged his house to put together a glorious keris for his marriage. Gold, emeralds, rubies --- chocolate layer cake with cream and cherries. After his marriage it took him several years to sell it at a loss. It was offered to me, but I could not afford it.

14th December 2009, 01:21 PM	#24
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Another for viewing Another Bali Sunggingan A better group of images of the one above. I will enjoy viewing more diversity in these pieces when you get to yours Alan. Enjoy. Gav Attached Images

14th December 2009, 10:42 PM	#25
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	This is nice art work, but I most sincerely doubt that this type of Balinese sunggingan work is traditional. It is the most popular style for newly done sungging work that is specifically offered to collectors. I have never seen an old sunggingan scabbard with this style of decoration --- or more correctly, I have never seen old sunggingan work of this style.

15th December 2009, 02:41 AM	#27
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	Yes, the keris is old, and very probably the scabbard, but I'd guess the sunggingan work as 1970's.

15th December 2009, 09:36 AM	#29
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,893	You're better than me Kiai, I can't tell what materials have been used for the sungging work from a photo, but wouldn't argue about the time frame, 1980's is near enough to 1970's in my book. The point is this:- its not old paint work.