Keris Sundang pictures for sharing or comment

brekele · 15th November 2009, 01:04 PM

Hi...Last month I went to Madura and trying to worked together with one of young pande keris, and the result is Keris Sundang luk 3. We tried to used Besi Malela. Comment is welcome and Thank you for watching.
Regards,
Brekele.

brekele · 15th November 2009, 03:05 PM

2nd result, this time we tried using besi wulung.
We both knew that both keris are stil way too far from perfect, but we are satisfied for the beginning of making these keris sundang project, Just a little bit information that the young pande keris never make this kind of keris type, only javanese keris.
Regards,
Brekele.

Marcokeris · 15th November 2009, 05:52 PM

IMO both two beautiful complete keris

Is a piece of shell in the second hit?

Battara · 15th November 2009, 07:43 PM

Very nice pieces. Thank you for sharing.

Looks like MOP in the second piece.

brekele · 15th November 2009, 08:36 PM

Thank you Marco & Battara for your comment.

@Marco : I put a piece thin plat of iron, I was thinking also to put shell on the hilt and warangka, but I guess this kind of work must be done it in lombok Island, because there...some people can make real good work for putting shell on the wood (At Jangkuk Sayang-sayang village).

@Battara : What is the meaning of MOP? Thank you.

Sajen · 15th November 2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

Thank you Marco & Battara for your comment.

@Marco : I put a piece thin plat of iron, I was thinking also to put shell on the hilt and warangka, but I guess this kind of work must be done it in lombok Island, because there...some people can make real good work for putting shell on the wood (At Jangkuk Sayang-sayang village).

@Battara : What is the meaning of MOP? Thank you.

Hello Brekele,

very nice work! I like special the second one. MOP means Mother of Pearl, the shell from Natilus.

Best,

Detlef

brekele · 15th November 2009, 10:55 PM

Thank you Detlef.

This is the last one that I can share , which is our favourit shape of the luk.
In the end of the work , I asked him (my friend) about which part the most difficult work for making all of these Keris Sundang, and he said : "Making bigger kruwingan (fuller?) is harder than smaller, every milimeter must carved very carefully to make the kruwingan's line looks smooth"

David · 15th November 2009, 11:27 PM

Nice contemporary work. I think that maybe the kakatau pommels are a bit too large for the size of these blades and if you want to give them a nicer look you could look into more complicated wrapping methods for the hilts and sheaths. The blades look beautiful. You friend has some talent.

Thanks for sharing.

Moshah · 17th November 2009, 05:44 AM

These works are pleasant to the eye...

Was there anymore sundang maker left in the land of the Moro?

Wonder what they will have to say about this.

Battara · 17th November 2009, 11:44 PM

There are some (but very few) Moro pandays who still make laminated kris and barong. Most of these I think are on the island of Sulu.

brekele · 22nd November 2009, 05:24 PM

The newest experiment of keris sundang.
This time we use "besi berpamor".

Spunjer · 22nd November 2009, 05:37 PM

stunning!
just thinking out loud, who's to say back in the old days this is exactly how the "twisted core" krises came to be: just a bunch of experiments like what you're doing now...

Rick · 22nd November 2009, 06:16 PM

Would that mean that Pamor had meaning for the Moro Peoples ?

Also Bre, shouldn't the asang asang have tails that go up under the hilt wrapping ?

Spunjer · 22nd November 2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Would that mean that Pamor had meaning for the Moro Peoples ?

did i just open up another door?

...but then again perhaps it was done for aesthetic purposes, since with a blade looking like this, coupled with a decorated hilt, it would look sharp as heck. or the original owner has direct indo ties

brekele · 22nd November 2009, 07:24 PM

Hi Rick, I was not thinking about context of the pamor and moro peoples, but more in the talent of the young pande for making new style of the keris, skill and his art work.

What is asang asang, is it name of Keris Sundang's ricikan?
Honestly I dont know it. So, sorry ...cannot answer your question.

Battara · 22nd November 2009, 07:28 PM

What wonderful work!

Asang-asang means the clamp where the hilt and the blade meet. I think it is a Sulu PI word.

Sajen · 22nd November 2009, 08:21 PM

Just beautiful!

Rick · 23rd November 2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

did i just open up another door?

Well,
Did you ?

Amuk Murugul · 23rd November 2009, 02:59 AM

Hullo everybody!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

....
Also Bre, shouldn't the asang asang have tails that go up under the hilt wrapping ?

.... not necessarily. It depends which aspects of the asang-asang 'evolution' one wants to emulate, as they were developed for practical reasons.

Best,

Rick · 23rd November 2009, 03:18 AM

All the more practical if the clamps hold the gangya to the sword and the sword in turn to the hilt ...

David · 16th December 2009, 07:15 AM

I find it really interesting that this first sundang posted here is currently being sold on eBay simply called KERIS SUNDANG LUK 3 KRIS MORO with no explanation that it is a brand new blade made in Madura. The title even dares to imply that the piece is actually Moro.
This seems passively deceptive at best and i can't help but feel that this forum was in some ways pumped for information on how to make this deception finer. This doesn't please me one bit Brekele and i'm not done with this yet!

Gavin Nugent · 16th December 2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I find it really interesting that this first sundang posted here is currently being sold on eBay simply called KERIS SUNDANG LUK 3 KRIS MORO with no explanation that it is a brand new blade made in Madura. The title even dares to imply that the piece is actually Moro.
This seems passively deceptive at best and i can't help but feel that this forum was in some ways pumped for information on how to make this deception finer. This doesn't please me one bit Brekele and i'm not done with this yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by brekele

Hi Rick, I was not thinking about context of the pamor and moro peoples, but more in the talent of the young pande for making new style of the keris, skill and his art work.

I don't know if the listing has been edited David but it does say made in Indonesia???
Passive deception...maybe...maybe not...maybe just a use of key words?
I don't really see a deception, only an exhibition of 4 different style for the forum to view, all made by a local young artisan, obviously they can't be eaten so offering the artwork seems practical...I don't see any information being bled from anyone with leading or probing questions....
What the real issue would be is an open discussion on a currently advertised item and the discussion remains open???......just my impartial 2 cents worth...

Gav

Paul Duffy · 16th December 2009, 12:34 PM

I am disappointed to spend time reading about an attempt to gather interest in a piece that is at best "poorly made",and which is attempting to exploit the Forum.
Wasn't this issue discussed recently.

Gustav · 16th December 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Duffy

I am disappointed to spend time reading about an attempt to gather interest in a piece that is at best "poorly made",and which is attempting to exploit the Forum.
Wasn't this issue discussed recently.

At best "poorly made" -

both two beautiful complete keris;

Very nice pieces. Thank you for sharing;

Very nice work! I like special the second one;

Nice contemporary work;

These works are pleasant to the eye;

Stunning!

I will just say, some of the older keris we are discussing here are fare more "poorly made".

Without doubts is this exploitation of the forum. But this is not the only one problem here, regarding the comments.

BluErf · 16th December 2009, 02:49 PM

Sometimes, silence from some members is as telling as saying something...

Rick · 16th December 2009, 04:16 PM

Thread closed .
Brekele is obviously a Dealer of keris .

Who here doesn't glance through the kerisses offered on eBay ?

I believe we have been cozened .

David · 16th December 2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

I don't know if the listing has been edited David but it does say made in Indonesia???

Well Gav, i do make mistakes sometimes...however, i read completely through the description 4 times before posting this and while i probably can't prove it i am fairly certain that this little location disclosure was added sometime while i slept. It would have also been nice if he also added "Newly Made" to the location. These keris have an added feeling of age about them that might make the uneducated buyer think they are antique. Of course "Buyer Beware" always applies, but if i am going to be asked for comments on these blades and give my opinions on how they might look more "authentic" then i expect the seller to use FULL disclosure when bringing them to auction. As Kai Wee has stated, perhaps in the future silence would be best.
I would disagree with Paul. I don't think they are poorly made at all. They are a product i think the maker can be quite proud of. What really annoys me is that they are not proud enough of them to say "I made this...just yesterday!" Unfortunately in the keris world there seem to be a distain amongst some collectors for the new. But if no one is interested in new keris art it will simply recess into obscurity as it was about to do before it's revival in the latter part of the 20th century. That would be a great shame. These new work need to be accepted and appreciated on their own merits. There are pandai working today that are doing incredible and exceptional things in the keris arts technically, as good if not better than any empu of the past. But some of them are afraid that if they present their work as new no one will buy it.
The danger i see with these particular works is that it is the first time i have seen new "Moro-style" kris made is manner. Even stated "Made in Indonesia" is not enough because they might convince someone that they are old Malay sundang (which i believe is the intention). Considering the blade treatments no one who collects Moro is going to be fooled, but for me this auction needs full disclosure or it is indeed a deception by omission.

15th November 2009, 01:04 PM	#1
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Keris Sundang pictures for sharing or comment Hi...Last month I went to Madura and trying to worked together with one of young pande keris, and the result is Keris Sundang luk 3. We tried to used Besi Malela. Comment is welcome and Thank you for watching. Regards, Brekele. Attached Images Last edited by brekele; 15th November 2009 at 01:17 PM.

15th November 2009, 03:05 PM	#2
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	2nd result, this time we tried using besi wulung. We both knew that both keris are stil way too far from perfect, but we are satisfied for the beginning of making these keris sundang project, Just a little bit information that the young pande keris never make this kind of keris type, only javanese keris. Regards, Brekele. Attached Images

15th November 2009, 10:55 PM	#7
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Thank you Detlef. This is the last one that I can share , which is our favourit shape of the luk. In the end of the work , I asked him (my friend) about which part the most difficult work for making all of these Keris Sundang, and he said : "Making bigger kruwingan (fuller?) is harder than smaller, every milimeter must carved very carefully to make the kruwingan's line looks smooth" Attached Images

22nd November 2009, 05:24 PM	#11
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	The newest experiment of Keris Sundang The newest experiment of keris sundang. This time we use "besi berpamor". Attached Images

15th November 2009, 05:52 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	IMO both two beautiful complete keris Is a piece of shell in the second hit?

15th November 2009, 07:43 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	Very nice pieces. Thank you for sharing. Looks like MOP in the second piece.

15th November 2009, 08:36 PM	#5
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Thank you Marco & Battara for your comment. @Marco : I put a piece thin plat of iron, I was thinking also to put shell on the hilt and warangka, but I guess this kind of work must be done it in lombok Island, because there...some people can make real good work for putting shell on the wood (At Jangkuk Sayang-sayang village). @Battara : What is the meaning of MOP? Thank you.

15th November 2009, 11:27 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	Nice contemporary work. I think that maybe the kakatau pommels are a bit too large for the size of these blades and if you want to give them a nicer look you could look into more complicated wrapping methods for the hilts and sheaths. The blades look beautiful. You friend has some talent. Thanks for sharing.

17th November 2009, 05:44 AM	#9
Moshah Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 171	These works are pleasant to the eye... Was there anymore sundang maker left in the land of the Moro? Wonder what they will have to say about this.

17th November 2009, 11:44 PM	#10
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	There are some (but very few) Moro pandays who still make laminated kris and barong. Most of these I think are on the island of Sulu.

22nd November 2009, 05:37 PM	#12
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	stunning! just thinking out loud, who's to say back in the old days this is exactly how the "twisted core" krises came to be: just a bunch of experiments like what you're doing now...

22nd November 2009, 06:16 PM	#13
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Would that mean that Pamor had meaning for the Moro Peoples ? Also Bre, shouldn't the asang asang have tails that go up under the hilt wrapping ?

22nd November 2009, 07:24 PM	#15
brekele Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 208	Hi Rick, I was not thinking about context of the pamor and moro peoples, but more in the talent of the young pande for making new style of the keris, skill and his art work. What is asang asang, is it name of Keris Sundang's ricikan? Honestly I dont know it. So, sorry ...cannot answer your question.

22nd November 2009, 07:28 PM	#16
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,225	What wonderful work! Asang-asang means the clamp where the hilt and the blade meet. I think it is a Sulu PI word.

22nd November 2009, 08:21 PM	#17
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 8,781	Just beautiful!

23rd November 2009, 03:18 AM	#20
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	All the more practical if the clamps hold the gangya to the sword and the sword in turn to the hilt ...

16th December 2009, 07:15 AM	#21
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,125	I find it really interesting that this first sundang posted here is currently being sold on eBay simply called KERIS SUNDANG LUK 3 KRIS MORO with no explanation that it is a brand new blade made in Madura. The title even dares to imply that the piece is actually Moro. This seems passively deceptive at best and i can't help but feel that this forum was in some ways pumped for information on how to make this deception finer. This doesn't please me one bit Brekele and i'm not done with this yet!

16th December 2009, 12:34 PM	#23
Paul Duffy Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 31	I am disappointed to spend time reading about an attempt to gather interest in a piece that is at best "poorly made",and which is attempting to exploit the Forum. Wasn't this issue discussed recently.

16th December 2009, 02:49 PM	#25
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Sometimes, silence from some members is as telling as saying something...

16th December 2009, 04:16 PM	#26
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,293	Thread closed . Brekele is obviously a Dealer of keris . Who here doesn't glance through the kerisses offered on eBay ? I believe we have been cozened .