Identification of a royal (family) with a Kris

A. G. Maisey · 15th October 2009, 11:23 PM

Here's two pics of PBX --- Paku Buwono Senopati ing Ngalogo Ngabdul Rahman Sayidin Panotogomo the Tenth --- Susuhunan of Surakarta.

Might be a bit difficult to pin down exactly who the people in Jonno's photo are. If the bloke is a regent, I'd translate that as Bupati, and that would make him a pretty minor figure. Might carry royal blood, but Javanese royals are pretty prevalent. PB XII who passed away a couple of years ago had 15 legitimate sons and 20 legitimate daughters. Previous rulers of Surakarta were at least as prolific.

David's pic looks like PBX to me.

A. G. Maisey · 15th October 2009, 11:32 PM

This is PB IX --- 1861-1893

Jonno · 16th October 2009, 09:29 AM

Hi Alan and David,

Thank you for showing these pictures.

I also collect old photographs from Indonesia. And I prefer royals and people with a keris.
Here some pictures from an old photo of PBX, period about 1912. He is wearing a Dutch uniform (garoet) of a major-general.

kulbuntet · 18th October 2009, 05:23 PM

Excelent photo! I can see a full four star general standing in the middle of him and his wife, wearing a knight cors on his neck.. who is he?

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is PB IX --- 1861-1893

Pb IX and his wife Raden Ajoe. Btw both are wearing Yoja dress. I have same photo here in a frame on the wall.

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2009, 10:01 PM

The photograph I posted of Paku Buwono IX, the Sunan of Surakarta, was copied from the official book the Karaton Surakarta, published under the authority of Paku Buwono XII, and by the Yayasan Pawiyatan Kabudayan Karaton Surakarta.
The caption to this photograph reads:-

" Paku Buwono IX (r. 1861-1893)and his wife, queen Ratu Mas."

Raden Ayu is a title used for a noblewoman, not for the wife of a ruler.

Kulbuntet, what is "Yoja dress"?

kulbuntet · 18th October 2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The photograph I posted of Paku Buwono IX, the Sunan of Surakarta, was copied from the official book the Karaton Surakarta, published under the authority of Paku Buwono XII, and by the Yayasan Pawiyatan Kabudayan Karaton Surakarta.
The caption to this photograph reads:-

" Paku Buwono IX (r. 1861-1893)and his wife, queen Ratu Mas."

Raden Ayu is a title used for a noblewoman, not for the wife of a ruler.

Kulbuntet, what is "Yoja dress"?

My appologies for my to haste post. I had a look in a photo book of Leo Haks it does say Raden Ajoe. The full text is, Javaansche prins en Raden Ajoe in Djogjasche dracht.... Translated... Javanese Prins and Raden Ajoe in Yogja dress. Leo haks is a Dutch Indonesian postcard collector, and i one of his books there is a postcard with the same photo with the text that i wrote above. It have a post stamp of the year of 1917.

The photo i have in a frame does not have anny text

And yoja dress must be Yogja dress

Alan thank you for corecting me.

Regards Michel

A. G. Maisey · 18th October 2009, 11:31 PM

Easy to make a little error like this. I do it all the time.

But one thing puzzles me:- why would the Sunan of Surakarta and his wife be wearing Yogyakarta dress?

I'm not sufficiently well up on the niceties of various forms of formal dress, especially for royals, to distinguish one form from another, but Yogyakarta dress for the head of the rival house?

And then this photo published in the official book of the Karaton Surakarta, a book intended to enshrine the position of Surakarta in the public view forever?

Jonno · 19th October 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Excelent photo! I can see a full four star general standing in the middle of him and his wife, wearing a knight cors on his neck.. who is he?

The person in uniform is also PBX or Paku Buwono X, the Susuhunan of Surakarta.

David · 19th October 2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonno

The person in uniform is also PBX or Paku Buwono X, the Susuhunan of Surakarta.

I think he is asking if anyone can ID the general standing between PBX and his wife.

kulbuntet · 19th October 2009, 08:47 PM

For Jonno, see last coment david.
For David, thank you.

For Alan,
There are family ties to Solo from Yogja, so to call it a rival house, dont know if thats the propper way to call it... same as for Puro Pakualaman palace/kraton.

First you can have a look at the head wrap. The Yogja head wrap has got the knot at the back, solo has it at front (ukiran solo "nose"). Second the jacket he is wearing is a Yogja style jacket... forgive me i dont know the propper Indonesian/Javanes names. The Sarong batik motif could be Yogja also... but is difficult to tell without colour showing. Iff we compare the first photo of Jonno with the photo in discusion of PBIX, it looks like the same Batik motif, and since the unindentified person is also wearing the knot at the back, it would be posible that he comes from the Yogja blood line.

For Jonno,

Do you allow me to send the photo of your first post to some friends of my, on in Indonesia who has good contact with people of high level. I will ask iff he can tell us more.

Regards Michel

Jonno · 20th October 2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I think he is asking if anyone can ID the general standing between PBX and his wife.

General C.H. v. Rietschoten, commander of the KNIL. (1918-1920)

About the photo on top.
I also made a picture of the backside. Sorry for the delay but I had to removed the old frame carefully.

Gavin Nugent · 16th October 2022, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

This is PB IX --- 1861-1893

I was wondering who this chap was on the pommel end. I suspect it is him.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cduw1-8vmm1/

15th October 2009, 11:23 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,042	Here's two pics of PBX --- Paku Buwono Senopati ing Ngalogo Ngabdul Rahman Sayidin Panotogomo the Tenth --- Susuhunan of Surakarta. Might be a bit difficult to pin down exactly who the people in Jonno's photo are. If the bloke is a regent, I'd translate that as Bupati, and that would make him a pretty minor figure. Might carry royal blood, but Javanese royals are pretty prevalent. PB XII who passed away a couple of years ago had 15 legitimate sons and 20 legitimate daughters. Previous rulers of Surakarta were at least as prolific. David's pic looks like PBX to me. Attached Images

15th October 2009, 11:32 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,042	This is PB IX --- 1861-1893 Attached Images

16th October 2009, 09:29 AM	#3
Jonno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 51	Hi Alan and David, Thank you for showing these pictures. I also collect old photographs from Indonesia. And I prefer royals and people with a keris. Here some pictures from an old photo of PBX, period about 1912. He is wearing a Dutch uniform (garoet) of a major-general. Attached Images

18th October 2009, 10:01 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,042	The photograph I posted of Paku Buwono IX, the Sunan of Surakarta, was copied from the official book the Karaton Surakarta, published under the authority of Paku Buwono XII, and by the Yayasan Pawiyatan Kabudayan Karaton Surakarta. The caption to this photograph reads:- " Paku Buwono IX (r. 1861-1893)and his wife, queen Ratu Mas." Raden Ayu is a title used for a noblewoman, not for the wife of a ruler. Kulbuntet, what is "Yoja dress"?

18th October 2009, 11:31 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,042	Easy to make a little error like this. I do it all the time. But one thing puzzles me:- why would the Sunan of Surakarta and his wife be wearing Yogyakarta dress? I'm not sufficiently well up on the niceties of various forms of formal dress, especially for royals, to distinguish one form from another, but Yogyakarta dress for the head of the rival house? And then this photo published in the official book of the Karaton Surakarta, a book intended to enshrine the position of Surakarta in the public view forever?

19th October 2009, 08:47 PM	#10
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	For Jonno, see last coment david. For David, thank you. For Alan, There are family ties to Solo from Yogja, so to call it a rival house, dont know if thats the propper way to call it... same as for Puro Pakualaman palace/kraton. First you can have a look at the head wrap. The Yogja head wrap has got the knot at the back, solo has it at front (ukiran solo "nose"). Second the jacket he is wearing is a Yogja style jacket... forgive me i dont know the propper Indonesian/Javanes names. The Sarong batik motif could be Yogja also... but is difficult to tell without colour showing. Iff we compare the first photo of Jonno with the photo in discusion of PBIX, it looks like the same Batik motif, and since the unindentified person is also wearing the knot at the back, it would be posible that he comes from the Yogja blood line. For Jonno, Do you allow me to send the photo of your first post to some friends of my, on in Indonesia who has good contact with people of high level. I will ask iff he can tell us more. Regards Michel