Bird-head Panabas

Lee · 12th October 2009, 07:04 PM

Two Ricks here Lee .

Here's this Rick's opinion .

Blade length: 23 3/4 inches
Overall weight: 1.2 kg

I'm not sure Lee, sure looks like a Panabas with perhaps a swapped out Thai handle; married piece ?

AFAIK The Moro peoples never did hilt work such as this ...

But there's something a bit strange about the 'Panabas' blade also ...

Rick · 12th October 2009, 11:51 PM

Sorry Lee, looks like I hit the edit bar when I meant to hit quote .

Please excuse .

It's been a long and very lousy day ..

Andrew · 13th October 2009, 03:33 AM

I don't think that hilt is Thai or Burmese, Lee. Some similarities to silverwork of the area, but different.

Interesting item.

Lee · 14th October 2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

But there's something a bit strange about the 'Panabas' blade also

Here is a closeup of the fretwork towards the tip of the blade. It is quite crisp, though not overly so, and I wonder whether it dates to the forging of the blade or may be contemporary with the handle.

hideyoshi · 14th October 2009, 03:56 PM

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panabas

RSWORD · 15th October 2009, 01:20 AM

Lee,

Hideyoshi has good eyes not only to recognize the similarity of blade shape between his example and yours but also notice that your example most probably has a twist core central panel like that on Hideyoshi. You can see the clear line of demarcation and hints of a twisted pattern in between those lines. With this blade being twistcore and of general panabas shape, I strongly suspect the blade is Moro and the hilt is a later add on from who knows where. Very neat blade and you don't see twistcore panabai very often!

Lee · 15th October 2009, 02:53 PM

Rsword, Hideyoshi and you both have good eyes and are entirely correct in your suspicions. The blade was in a rack perpendicular to the front of the table with only the face I have previously been showing on view. Somehow I had just enough of a hint or the piled construction to ask to pick it up, and the opposite side - pictured below - was much more overt. I think some persons more expert than myself bypassed it without closer inspection owing to the enigma of the hilt.

My own suspicions are that the blade may well be 19th century or early 20th while the hilt has likely been made since the time of WWII. Personally, I do not believe this hilting to represent a tourist item or a Western bladesmith's fantasy piece - the hilt allows for an excellent grip and the balance is favorable - and the work is either too good or not good enough to recommend such classification. So I guess I will just have to live with the enigma until someone recognizes the style and can place the origin of the grip.

Gavin Nugent · 17th September 2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Rsword, Hideyoshi and you both have good eyes and are entirely correct in your suspicions. The blade was in a rack perpendicular to the front of the table with only the face I have previously been showing on view. Somehow I had just enough of a hint or the piled construction to ask to pick it up, and the opposite side - pictured below - was much more overt. I think some persons more expert than myself bypassed it without closer inspection owing to the enigma of the hilt.

My own suspicions are that the blade may well be 19th century or early 20th while the hilt has likely been made since the time of WWII. Personally, I do not believe this hilting to represent a tourist item or a Western bladesmith's fantasy piece - the hilt allows for an excellent grip and the balance is favorable - and the work is either too good or not good enough to recommend such classification. So I guess I will just have to live with the enigma until someone recognizes the style and can place the origin of the grip.

And now you all know it is not alone in the world ;-)

Gav

Battara · 17th September 2011, 10:57 PM

I guess I come in late on this piece (and some how missed it) I think this hilt is late and not truly Moro. Moros would have traditionally used okir to make the hilt in an animal shape but not like this. Yes this is a little odd with 2 of them, but still I'm not sure the hilt is Moro or at least it is late in origin.

I would however place the okir bands and twisted silver bands as Sulu. I'm thinking therefore this is a later work on the hilt.

12th October 2009, 07:04 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Rick, do you know what I'm thinking? Two Ricks here Lee . Here's this Rick's opinion . Blade length: 23 3/4 inches Overall weight: 1.2 kg I'm not sure Lee, sure looks like a Panabas with perhaps a swapped out Thai handle; married piece ? AFAIK The Moro peoples never did hilt work such as this ... But there's something a bit strange about the 'Panabas' blade also ... Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 12th October 2009 at 11:41 PM.

12th October 2009, 11:51 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	DOH !!! Sorry Lee, looks like I hit the edit bar when I meant to hit quote . Please excuse . It's been a long and very lousy day ..

14th October 2009, 03:56 PM	#5
hideyoshi Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 58	panabas http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=panabas Attached Images

15th October 2009, 02:53 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Yes, a twist core Rsword, Hideyoshi and you both have good eyes and are entirely correct in your suspicions. The blade was in a rack perpendicular to the front of the table with only the face I have previously been showing on view. Somehow I had just enough of a hint or the piled construction to ask to pick it up, and the opposite side - pictured below - was much more overt. I think some persons more expert than myself bypassed it without closer inspection owing to the enigma of the hilt. My own suspicions are that the blade may well be 19th century or early 20th while the hilt has likely been made since the time of WWII. Personally, I do not believe this hilting to represent a tourist item or a Western bladesmith's fantasy piece - the hilt allows for an excellent grip and the balance is favorable - and the work is either too good or not good enough to recommend such classification. So I guess I will just have to live with the enigma until someone recognizes the style and can place the origin of the grip. Attached Images

13th October 2009, 03:33 AM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I don't think that hilt is Thai or Burmese, Lee. Some similarities to silverwork of the area, but different. Interesting item.

15th October 2009, 01:20 AM	#6
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,086	Lee, Hideyoshi has good eyes not only to recognize the similarity of blade shape between his example and yours but also notice that your example most probably has a twist core central panel like that on Hideyoshi. You can see the clear line of demarcation and hints of a twisted pattern in between those lines. With this blade being twistcore and of general panabas shape, I strongly suspect the blade is Moro and the hilt is a later add on from who knows where. Very neat blade and you don't see twistcore panabai very often!

17th September 2011, 10:57 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I guess I come in late on this piece (and some how missed it) I think this hilt is late and not truly Moro. Moros would have traditionally used okir to make the hilt in an animal shape but not like this. Yes this is a little odd with 2 of them, but still I'm not sure the hilt is Moro or at least it is late in origin. I would however place the okir bands and twisted silver bands as Sulu. I'm thinking therefore this is a later work on the hilt.