Yemen Jambiya?

ward · 27th September 2009, 06:44 PM

I would say makers name is correct. I have a yemani powder flask that has hebrew all along the top that no one has been able to translate. You might want to check with Artzi on the translation.

fernando · 27th September 2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ward

I would say makers name is correct. I have a yemani powder flask that has hebrew all along the top that no one has been able to translate. You might want to check with Artzi on the translation.

This time i was referring to the dotted Arabic engraving on the handle pommel, not the the Hebrew symbols near the blade.

ward · 27th September 2009, 07:00 PM

Sorry The Arabic on this piece I believe refers to the owner. You are correct.

Oriental-Arms · 27th September 2009, 07:06 PM

The Hebrew letters does not make much sense. The letters are: ALEF, LAMED, yOD, NOON, HET and the last one is not clear. it might be sound like ELINAH ???, might be name, or the first three letters might sound as ELI - which means MY GOD.

ariel · 27th September 2009, 07:52 PM

The second one looks like Beth/Veth to me: there is a horizontal line at the bottom.
Still, I cannot guess what it means.
Avi- noakh?

ward · 27th September 2009, 09:06 PM

The problem with hebrew and arabic is that it is often written as in this case without voweling. So on top of figuring out the actual letters that are present, than you have to know what vowels to add to the word. I would think in this instance a name would be the most likely, but admit the one we translated to may not be correct. A religous inscription seems doubtful.

fernando · 27th September 2009, 10:19 PM

Thank you Artzi,
Thank you Ariel,
So i see it is quite complex. I will be digesting your sugestions.
Toda raba

.

I see your point Ward, in that it wouldn't be a religious allegory but, instead, the discreet engraving of the silver smith name. I have read somewhere that Hebrew smiths in Yemen (Temani) were allowed to craft janbiyya hilts but not the blades.

Fernando

ward · 27th September 2009, 10:47 PM

Jewish guilds tradionally have done much of the silver and gold work. Even today silver work or koftkagari would be done in a seperate workshop than the forging of blades. One workshop does not generally do all the work on a finished piece for sale but draws on a lot of subcontractors.

Steve · 27th September 2009, 10:57 PM

Sorry to come in late but the time difference is a bit extreme.
I have had several of these Hodeida hilts translated and they have always come back " work of..." or "made by.." as Michael's did above. I have to go by these translations and take it that the name on the back of the hilt is the makers name. It has been a proud and long tradition for the makers name to be transcribed onto silver pieces, including jambiya hilts, scabbards and adornments- in fact it was law to do so at a time in Sana under the last Imams.

With regards to the hebrew inscription. It would appear from others posts, that you have another signature. Occasionally I have seen hebrew writing on silver jambiya pieces. Not often- usually the jewish name was written in arabic. A silver spacer is sometimes used between the inside of silver hilts and the blade - as in this case although the spacer seems a little odd in not covering the complete distance. Maybe this is the photo or something more is hidden under the resin.

As a guess I think the hebrew signature might refer to the provider of that silver piece or the person, with the division of labour in making these, put the blade into the handle and added the additional silver spacer? Just an opinion.

Steve

27th September 2009, 07:06 PM	#4
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Hebrew Translation The Hebrew letters does not make much sense. The letters are: ALEF, LAMED, yOD, NOON, HET and the last one is not clear. it might be sound like ELINAH ???, might be name, or the first three letters might sound as ELI - which means MY GOD.

27th September 2009, 10:19 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you Artzi, Thank you Ariel, So i see it is quite complex. I will be digesting your sugestions. Toda raba . I see your point Ward, in that it wouldn't be a religious allegory but, instead, the discreet engraving of the silver smith name. I have read somewhere that Hebrew smiths in Yemen (Temani) were allowed to craft janbiyya hilts but not the blades. Fernando Last edited by fernando; 27th September 2009 at 10:42 PM.

27th September 2009, 06:44 PM	#1
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	I would say makers name is correct. I have a yemani powder flask that has hebrew all along the top that no one has been able to translate. You might want to check with Artzi on the translation.

27th September 2009, 07:00 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Sorry The Arabic on this piece I believe refers to the owner. You are correct.

27th September 2009, 07:52 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	The second one looks like Beth/Veth to me: there is a horizontal line at the bottom. Still, I cannot guess what it means. Avi- noakh?

27th September 2009, 09:06 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	The problem with hebrew and arabic is that it is often written as in this case without voweling. So on top of figuring out the actual letters that are present, than you have to know what vowels to add to the word. I would think in this instance a name would be the most likely, but admit the one we translated to may not be correct. A religous inscription seems doubtful.

27th September 2009, 10:47 PM	#8
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Jewish guilds tradionally have done much of the silver and gold work. Even today silver work or koftkagari would be done in a seperate workshop than the forging of blades. One workshop does not generally do all the work on a finished piece for sale but draws on a lot of subcontractors.

27th September 2009, 10:57 PM	#9
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Sorry to come in late but the time difference is a bit extreme. I have had several of these Hodeida hilts translated and they have always come back " work of..." or "made by.." as Michael's did above. I have to go by these translations and take it that the name on the back of the hilt is the makers name. It has been a proud and long tradition for the makers name to be transcribed onto silver pieces, including jambiya hilts, scabbards and adornments- in fact it was law to do so at a time in Sana under the last Imams. With regards to the hebrew inscription. It would appear from others posts, that you have another signature. Occasionally I have seen hebrew writing on silver jambiya pieces. Not often- usually the jewish name was written in arabic. A silver spacer is sometimes used between the inside of silver hilts and the blade - as in this case although the spacer seems a little odd in not covering the complete distance. Maybe this is the photo or something more is hidden under the resin. As a guess I think the hebrew signature might refer to the provider of that silver piece or the person, with the division of labour in making these, put the blade into the handle and added the additional silver spacer? Just an opinion. Steve