Inlay, koftgari, repousse, chasing and neillo

Battara · 15th December 2004, 08:27 AM

neillo:

Neillo is a completely different animal. In use of silver, one may engrave or hollow out the background sections of silver to make the others stand out. In the recessed areas a special lead-sulfer-oxide solution is applied that blackens the recessed areas of the silver. This is more than simple oxidation because it develops a thick plaque of oxidation that lasts longer than just black or brown patina on silver (which enhances value when taken off unlike bronze). This is a very common method used on Russian shaskas and kindjals. It can only be used on silver. Here is a picture of some common Thai jewelry where neillo is used as background as well as on the shaska from Oriental-Arms. Both cases are of course made of silver:

Battara · 15th December 2004, 08:46 AM

koftgari:

Koftgari is a technique that first scars the hard metal, say steel, by incising or cutting lines into the surface. Then the artist takes very thin or flat wire made of soft metal, like silver or gold, and hammers this "tape" onto the cut area. The metal "tape" will be hammered into the incisions and thus will be held in place. It is important to note that these incisions are not as deep and thus the soft metal decoration can wear over time if not careful. Although not as permanent as inlay, the artist can produce more elaborate designs. Most of the examples of koftgari come from 15th-16th century India. Here is an example of heavy silver koftgari on a steel Balinese ceremonial axe (notice the lines on the steel):

Battara · 15th December 2004, 08:48 AM

If there are any other questions, I would be happy to try my best to answer them
(or just make up the answers

)

Jose

PS: Ian, I love your choice of avatars.

Mare Rosu · 15th December 2004, 12:24 PM

Battara
I would like to thank you sir for the great information.
You are one in house "google" information center.

You asked but not to me, for any other questions, so if I may I would like to ask a question of my own. I hesitate to do so as it will defiantly show just how low on the learning curve I reside.
Anyway I sure would like to see the same type of description that you used for the inlaying ....etc, that is a picture with an explanation, of the main type of Daggers that are posted from time to time on this forum.
Sort of a pictorial with description of the "standard" form, again like, what is a PESH KABZ? a KARUD?, KERIS? DHA, etc. I know this is a BIG undertaking and my take several forum folks input (RADU are you reading this?), but the knowledge that you have as well as the others of this forum is outstanding. It just would help me as a new collector, as well as others, I think, to have a thread on this forum where one could go to see what the experts are talking about.
I should have started a new thread to ask this question but
wilked aka Khun Deng
question was so great it got me thinking about my question.
Thanks again for the information.

Mark · 15th December 2004, 01:28 PM

Great explanations! Thanks for clearing everything up. So, koftgari is indeed an appropriate term for the decoration often seen on dha blades (it is interesting that in SEA koftgari they tend to roughen a larger area on which to apply the design, which sort of frames the whole thing).

wilked aka Khun Deng · 15th December 2004, 02:15 PM

Jose, Can't thank you enough, I felt like I had been missing somewhat of the explainations in the posts being ignorant of the correct terms. Your concise explanations along with the photos make this remarkably easy to pick up. So if I have this right now, the scabbard on Mark's 1798 dha is repousse and what I had been reffering to as neillo on Ayutthaya period swords is actually kaftgari. Damn I'm glad I asked and even happier you answered.

Eris, Excellent suggestion! Especially on many of the Caucasian and Turkish weapons I tend to skim through those for which I've no visual picture to refresh my memory. I would take this one step further and recommend a drop down menu along the top of the toolbar that you click on and get a list of blade types by name and a quick click would bring up a small dialogue box that would allow you to see a representative blade and still read the post. What of it Lee can this software do that?

Battara · 16th December 2004, 11:43 AM

You can have repousse and neillo on a sword at the same time. The silver work on the scabbard is repousse. The silver work on the blade is kofgari. Glad this helps.

15th December 2004, 08:27 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,334	neillo: Neillo is a completely different animal. In use of silver, one may engrave or hollow out the background sections of silver to make the others stand out. In the recessed areas a special lead-sulfer-oxide solution is applied that blackens the recessed areas of the silver. This is more than simple oxidation because it develops a thick plaque of oxidation that lasts longer than just black or brown patina on silver (which enhances value when taken off unlike bronze). This is a very common method used on Russian shaskas and kindjals. It can only be used on silver. Here is a picture of some common Thai jewelry where neillo is used as background as well as on the shaska from Oriental-Arms. Both cases are of course made of silver: Attached Images Last edited by Battara; 15th December 2004 at 08:47 AM.

15th December 2004, 08:46 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,334	koftgari: Koftgari is a technique that first scars the hard metal, say steel, by incising or cutting lines into the surface. Then the artist takes very thin or flat wire made of soft metal, like silver or gold, and hammers this "tape" onto the cut area. The metal "tape" will be hammered into the incisions and thus will be held in place. It is important to note that these incisions are not as deep and thus the soft metal decoration can wear over time if not careful. Although not as permanent as inlay, the artist can produce more elaborate designs. Most of the examples of koftgari come from 15th-16th century India. Here is an example of heavy silver koftgari on a steel Balinese ceremonial axe (notice the lines on the steel): Attached Images

15th December 2004, 12:24 PM	#4
Mare Rosu Deceased Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: USA, DEEP SOUTH, GEORGIA, Y'all hear? Posts: 121	*Battara* I would like to thank you sir for the great information. You are one in house "google" information center. You asked but not to me, for any other questions, so if I may I would like to ask a question of my own. I hesitate to do so as it will defiantly show just how low on the learning curve I reside. Anyway I sure would like to see the same type of description that you used for the inlaying ....etc, that is a picture with an explanation, of the main type of Daggers that are posted from time to time on this forum. Sort of a pictorial with description of the "standard" form, again like, what is a PESH KABZ? a KARUD?, KERIS? DHA, etc. I know this is a BIG undertaking and my take several forum folks input (*RADU* are you reading this?), but the knowledge that you have as well as the others of this forum is outstanding. It just would help me as a new collector, as well as others, I think, to have a thread on this forum where one could go to see what the experts are talking about. I should have started a new thread to ask this question but wilked aka Khun Deng question was so great it got me thinking about my question. Thanks again for the information. Last edited by Mare Rosu; 15th December 2004 at 03:36 PM.

15th December 2004, 02:15 PM	#6
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	You the Man! Jose, Can't thank you enough, I felt like I had been missing somewhat of the explainations in the posts being ignorant of the correct terms. Your concise explanations along with the photos make this remarkably easy to pick up. So if I have this right now, the scabbard on Mark's 1798 dha is repousse and what I had been reffering to as neillo on Ayutthaya period swords is actually kaftgari. Damn I'm glad I asked and even happier you answered. Eris, Excellent suggestion! Especially on many of the Caucasian and Turkish weapons I tend to skim through those for which I've no visual picture to refresh my memory. I would take this one step further and recommend a drop down menu along the top of the toolbar that you click on and get a list of blade types by name and a quick click would bring up a small dialogue box that would allow you to see a representative blade and still read the post. What of it Lee can this software do that?

15th December 2004, 08:48 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,334	If there are any other questions, I would be happy to try my best to answer them (or just make up the answers ) Jose PS: Ian, I love your choice of avatars.

15th December 2004, 01:28 PM	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 987	Great explanations! Thanks for clearing everything up. So, koftgari is indeed an appropriate term for the decoration often seen on dha blades (it is interesting that in SEA koftgari they tend to roughen a larger area on which to apply the design, which sort of frames the whole thing).

16th December 2004, 11:43 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,334	You can have repousse and neillo on a sword at the same time. The silver work on the scabbard is repousse. The silver work on the blade is kofgari. Glad this helps.