Tajong-viewing plesure & comments.

BluErf · 27th August 2009, 02:42 PM

Another point - the carver should have spent more time polishing the hilt. It looks a bit rough like that. He definitely has potential to be much better, and I hope he does, to perpetuate the art of tajong!

BluErf · 27th August 2009, 02:50 PM

Sorry for multiple posts - the batang needs to be longer. The traditional aesthetics of a tajong shd be taller and lankier, like the blade. Shd really lose the silver works... A nicely grained batang made from kayu sena would be much classier.

David · 27th August 2009, 03:36 PM

Hi Kai Wee. Would you be able to define some of these descriptive terms as they apply to the tajong hilt form. I know a few, but not all of them as tajong is not as much an area of concentration for me as it is for you. If you could provide a diagram with the parts named that would be awesome, but if not, just a explanation of terms would be helpful.

mykeris · 27th August 2009, 04:28 PM

Interesting, points taken. But don't you think Tajong has inherited many style of carving methods and versions by different carvers? Would you agree that this is a 19th Century hand work hilt? Would you think that this hilt was carved prior to the birth of Nik Rashideen?

BluErf · 28th August 2009, 12:47 AM

Hi Mykeris,

I agree there are many different styles of tajong, and individual carvers also add their style to it. However, I was not referring to an individual's style when discussing this hilt. I was touching on the 'archetype' style.

This hilt is apparently going for the "late stage" form of the tajong in which the body is big and full, head is broad, prominent crown and janggut, with body covered in vegetative motifs. And yet, this hilt is on the slim side. A good source of old tajong hilts is the Spirit of Wood. We can refer to pg 121 for a view on how the hilt evolved. Pgs 125-127 show more older hilts from various eras, which I generally agree with the age attribution, except for the one which has lost its swasa nose and eyes and being attributed to pre-18th century (I think that hilt is 19th century style, maybe earlier part, but just in bad condition).

As to why I thought this hilt was recent - the older hilts I have seen are carved with clean clear lines, and all parts are meticulously finished. There are hardly any unsure lines or rough edges, motifs are defined. In short, the carvers spent a lot of time carving and finishing the hilt. That was understandable, because a good tajong hilt could be worth a small piece of land, and were carried by people in higher society who could afford them. In recent years, there had been carvers of the tajong hilt, but they do not follow the same strict expectations of standards as the carvers of old. We see more and more tajong hilts these days like that, with carvers flouting basic rules like sharpening their knives constantly! When one is carving hard wood like kenaung or kemuning, sometimes, sharpening is required every few strokes. This was not observed, even at the so called tajong school in Southern Thailand, where students pump out substandard tajongs.

I'm not saying your tajong hilt is bad; in fact, the hilt is overall good and has the effect of impressing viewers. The carver is talented and has an understanding of the tajong form and motifs, but he could have been brilliant if he spent more time.

I'm quite frank on this subject, and you would have noted that I have posted favourable comments on some tajong you posted earlier. So, I am focused on the subject, not collectors or fellow forumnites.

Hope you understand. Thank you.

Battara · 28th August 2009, 03:53 AM

I agree with Bluerf, the hilt is a later period of tajong. Also the silver mounts would be polished as well. I do like the fossil molar. Would you post pictures of the silver work?

mykeris · 28th August 2009, 08:17 AM

No probs Bluerf, keep it up, points taken. I would appreciate if our Moderator could kindly consider removing those scribbled photos of mine . I would suggest a proper diagram for proper explanation.! Dont worry about your negative comments, I like honesty and constructive comments..Some samples would be good, Bluerf.

27th August 2009, 04:28 PM	#4
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Creative Art Of Carving Interesting, points taken. But don't you think Tajong has inherited many style of carving methods and versions by different carvers? Would you agree that this is a 19th Century hand work hilt? Would you think that this hilt was carved prior to the birth of Nik Rashideen?

27th August 2009, 02:42 PM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Another point - the carver should have spent more time polishing the hilt. It looks a bit rough like that. He definitely has potential to be much better, and I hope he does, to perpetuate the art of tajong!

27th August 2009, 02:50 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Sorry for multiple posts - the batang needs to be longer. The traditional aesthetics of a tajong shd be taller and lankier, like the blade. Shd really lose the silver works... A nicely grained batang made from kayu sena would be much classier.

27th August 2009, 03:36 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Hi Kai Wee. Would you be able to define some of these descriptive terms as they apply to the tajong hilt form. I know a few, but not all of them as tajong is not as much an area of concentration for me as it is for you. If you could provide a diagram with the parts named that would be awesome, but if not, just a explanation of terms would be helpful.

28th August 2009, 12:47 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Mykeris, I agree there are many different styles of tajong, and individual carvers also add their style to it. However, I was not referring to an individual's style when discussing this hilt. I was touching on the 'archetype' style. This hilt is apparently going for the "late stage" form of the tajong in which the body is big and full, head is broad, prominent crown and janggut, with body covered in vegetative motifs. And yet, this hilt is on the slim side. A good source of old tajong hilts is the Spirit of Wood. We can refer to pg 121 for a view on how the hilt evolved. Pgs 125-127 show more older hilts from various eras, which I generally agree with the age attribution, except for the one which has lost its swasa nose and eyes and being attributed to pre-18th century (I think that hilt is 19th century style, maybe earlier part, but just in bad condition). As to why I thought this hilt was recent - the older hilts I have seen are carved with clean clear lines, and all parts are meticulously finished. There are hardly any unsure lines or rough edges, motifs are defined. In short, the carvers spent a lot of time carving and finishing the hilt. That was understandable, because a good tajong hilt could be worth a small piece of land, and were carried by people in higher society who could afford them. In recent years, there had been carvers of the tajong hilt, but they do not follow the same strict expectations of standards as the carvers of old. We see more and more tajong hilts these days like that, with carvers flouting basic rules like sharpening their knives constantly! When one is carving hard wood like kenaung or kemuning, sometimes, sharpening is required every few strokes. This was not observed, even at the so called tajong school in Southern Thailand, where students pump out substandard tajongs. I'm not saying your tajong hilt is bad; in fact, the hilt is overall good and has the effect of impressing viewers. The carver is talented and has an understanding of the tajong form and motifs, but he could have been brilliant if he spent more time. I'm quite frank on this subject, and you would have noted that I have posted favourable comments on some tajong you posted earlier. So, I am focused on the subject, not collectors or fellow forumnites. Hope you understand. Thank you.

28th August 2009, 03:53 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,270	I agree with Bluerf, the hilt is a later period of tajong. Also the silver mounts would be polished as well. I do like the fossil molar. Would you post pictures of the silver work?

28th August 2009, 08:17 AM	#7
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	No probs Bluerf, keep it up, points taken. I would appreciate if our Moderator could kindly consider removing those scribbled photos of mine . I would suggest a proper diagram for proper explanation.! Dont worry about your negative comments, I like honesty and constructive comments..Some samples would be good, Bluerf.