Jambiya Blade Construction

Steve · 25th August 2009, 03:53 AM

Hi Guys,
I may be able to shead a little light onto the squared rib debate on the jambiya blade. It's my experience that the rib is squared to that the dagger can fit neatly into the scabbard. As the scabbards are made in bulk as a separate process to the making of the dagger, they are not fitted uniquely and are of variable quality. In other words the scabbard is nowadays not uniquely made for each dagger. Some craftsmanship has been lost over the years in this area. So they adjust the rib on the blade by grinding so as to produce a snug fit.

The extension of this process is that a squared rib is usually indicative of a more recent manufacture, or blade replacement, but can apply to a solid as well as a hollow blade.

My observation only,
Steve

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2009, 06:05 AM

Hi Steve,
I personally do not think that square vs rounded has anything to do with the scabbard fit. Most, if not all the scabbards of Jambiyas/Khanjars I have in my collection do NOT have "fitted" scabbard centres, but are as shown in this pic: simply a curved profile on both internal sides. IF scabbards are made in bulk and mated with Jambiya at a later stage, the more important aspect would be to do with blade length, width and curvature.
Regards Stu

Steve · 25th August 2009, 08:18 AM

Hi stu,
Just a quick reply across the Tasman while the rest of the world sleeps.

As you would appreciate in years past the manufacture of the jambiya had very specific specialisation of labour. Once the blade and hilt were chosen and fitted, the scabbard was made to fit - with or without silver mounts. The scabbard was altered to accommodate the dagger.

Today they are still made separately - the scabbard in house and the mass blades shaped from blanks in the souq. However the dagger blade is shaped by template - lenghth, width, curve etc. as you mentioned -to fit a scabbard type and any final adjustments are made to the dagger blade when fitting. This often involves a flat rib profile which provides a more universal fit. This I have seen. A thickened ridge line is usually found in the more desirable and older Hadrami blades. I also have a few daggers very similar to your one with the grind flattening marks on the ridge still visible.

With regards your last photo posted above. I think the dagger in your first set of photos would be made to fit the usual scabbard design now mostly made. That is "asseb" style,flat, thin, wide, wood liners and covered with green or tan leather. The wood liners in your last photo are made and fitted differently.

All very interesting,
Regards,
Steve

kahnjar1 · 25th August 2009, 09:18 AM

Hi Steve,
The last pic relates to the other pics and is the same scabbard, not from another Jambiya. I bow to your knowledge regarding the manufacture of these things. I do know that old Jambiyas/Khanjars were tribal items, hence I would have thought a certain lack of standardisation, though similar in regional shape. I have a number of Omani Khanjar, and while the basic shape is constant, the "sizing" is not.
You have PM
Regards Stuart

Lew · 25th August 2009, 12:42 PM

Steve

The squared rib is the product of the die used in the press and not the result of someone trying to get a better fit in the scabbard. Wood and leather do give so even if the rib was a few microns or a mm off they would fit.

Oriental-Arms · 25th August 2009, 04:48 PM

For the benefits of us who are not sure what is the meaning of two pieces blade or sandwich blade or whatever you call it, I took the liberty to show a close up of such a blade which I spared and opened the welding (It was easier than easy).

And fully opened:

I have never been to Yemen and never seen how it is being done (I wish I could but due to certain political obstacles I can not do it). But in my very humble opinion, at least the blade shown above is of very poor quality. It is made of two thin, 0.5 mm thick, galvanized iron sheet pressed in a die (see Lew comment above) and badly welded (not soldered), which make the task of splitting it open very easy. In my very humble opinion, the round rib or the squared rib is only a question of who pressed the blade on what die.

I am afraid we can not regard it as a weapon or a tool and only hardly accept it as a traditional costume artifact.

kahnjar1 · 26th August 2009, 08:24 AM

Hi Artzi,
Thank you for your interesting pics, and your input. I have seen sandwich blades which are only spot welded every couple of inches along the edge.
This is usually very evident in any pics of the blades.
I think it would be fair to say that you have put my mind at rest regarding these blades being genuine or not. By "genuine" I mean a weapon blade. I will continue to avoid them.
Regards Stuart

25th August 2009, 06:05 AM	#2
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,797	Hi Steve, I personally do not think that square vs rounded has anything to do with the scabbard fit. Most, if not all the scabbards of Jambiyas/Khanjars I have in my collection do NOT have "fitted" scabbard centres, but are as shown in this pic: simply a curved profile on both internal sides. IF scabbards are made in bulk and mated with Jambiya at a later stage, the more important aspect would be to do with blade length, width and curvature. Regards Stu Attached Images

25th August 2009, 04:48 PM	#6
Oriental-Arms Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Haifa, Israel Posts: 183	Sandwich blade For the benefits of us who are not sure what is the meaning of two pieces blade or sandwich blade or whatever you call it, I took the liberty to show a close up of such a blade which I spared and opened the welding (It was easier than easy). And fully opened: I have never been to Yemen and never seen how it is being done (I wish I could but due to certain political obstacles I can not do it). But in my very humble opinion, at least the blade shown above is of very poor quality. It is made of two thin, 0.5 mm thick, galvanized iron sheet pressed in a die (see Lew comment above) and badly welded (not soldered), which make the task of splitting it open very easy. In my very humble opinion, the round rib or the squared rib is only a question of who pressed the blade on what die. I am afraid we can not regard it as a weapon or a tool and only hardly accept it as a traditional costume artifact.

25th August 2009, 03:53 AM	#1
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Hi Guys, I may be able to shead a little light onto the squared rib debate on the jambiya blade. It's my experience that the rib is squared to that the dagger can fit neatly into the scabbard. As the scabbards are made in bulk as a separate process to the making of the dagger, they are not fitted uniquely and are of variable quality. In other words the scabbard is nowadays not uniquely made for each dagger. Some craftsmanship has been lost over the years in this area. So they adjust the rib on the blade by grinding so as to produce a snug fit. The extension of this process is that a squared rib is usually indicative of a more recent manufacture, or blade replacement, but can apply to a solid as well as a hollow blade. My observation only, Steve

25th August 2009, 08:18 AM	#3
Steve Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Sydney Posts: 58	Hi stu, Just a quick reply across the Tasman while the rest of the world sleeps. As you would appreciate in years past the manufacture of the jambiya had very specific specialisation of labour. Once the blade and hilt were chosen and fitted, the scabbard was made to fit - with or without silver mounts. The scabbard was altered to accommodate the dagger. Today they are still made separately - the scabbard in house and the mass blades shaped from blanks in the souq. However the dagger blade is shaped by template - lenghth, width, curve etc. as you mentioned -to fit a scabbard type and any final adjustments are made to the dagger blade when fitting. This often involves a flat rib profile which provides a more universal fit. This I have seen. A thickened ridge line is usually found in the more desirable and older Hadrami blades. I also have a few daggers very similar to your one with the grind flattening marks on the ridge still visible. With regards your last photo posted above. I think the dagger in your first set of photos would be made to fit the usual scabbard design now mostly made. That is "asseb" style,flat, thin, wide, wood liners and covered with green or tan leather. The wood liners in your last photo are made and fitted differently. All very interesting, Regards, Steve

25th August 2009, 09:18 AM	#4
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,797	Hi Steve, The last pic relates to the other pics and is the same scabbard, not from another Jambiya. I bow to your knowledge regarding the manufacture of these things. I do know that old Jambiyas/Khanjars were tribal items, hence I would have thought a certain lack of standardisation, though similar in regional shape. I have a number of Omani Khanjar, and while the basic shape is constant, the "sizing" is not. You have PM Regards Stuart

25th August 2009, 12:42 PM	#5
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Steve The squared rib is the product of the die used in the press and not the result of someone trying to get a better fit in the scabbard. Wood and leather do give so even if the rib was a few microns or a mm off they would fit.

26th August 2009, 08:24 AM	#7
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,797	Hi Artzi, Thank you for your interesting pics, and your input. I have seen sandwich blades which are only spot welded every couple of inches along the edge. This is usually very evident in any pics of the blades. I think it would be fair to say that you have put my mind at rest regarding these blades being genuine or not. By "genuine" I mean a weapon blade. I will continue to avoid them. Regards Stuart