Arsenic or realgar for Keris etching?

[Royston]

Gents

For my sins I was once an aspiring Geologist. It was a long time ago but one thing about minerals sticks clearly in my mind. They differ in composition and colour a lot. If the relative amounts of arsenic to trace elements is important for the etch to work there is no saying that this will always be the same colour. Often other trace elements will alter the colour, sometimes a lot.
The result of this is that a good "etching " realgar may be red in one mine but may be yellow in another.

Regards
Roy

[David]

Originally Posted by Royston

Gents

For my sins I was once an aspiring Geologist. It was a long time ago but one thing about minerals sticks clearly in my mind. They differ in composition and colour a lot. If the relative amounts of arsenic to trace elements is important for the etch to work there is no saying that this will always be the same colour. Often other trace elements will alter the colour, sometimes a lot.
The result of this is that a good "etching " realgar may be red in one mine but may be yellow in another.

Regards
Roy

Thanks for the geological perspective Roy. Makes sense. Also makes realgar even less predictable if you can't really count on the color as a guide.

[Tatyana Dianova]

Maybe it is a stupid question, but I would like to know if (staining or etching) of wootz blades with arsenic may bring a good result? Is there anybody who has tried it?

[David]

Originally Posted by Tatyana Dianova

Maybe it is a stupid question, but I would like to know if (staining or etching) of wootz blades with arsenic may bring a good result? Is there anybody who has tried it?

Admittedly i don't know much about wootz, but what causes the contrast in keris blades is usually the inclusion of nickel in the pamor material which doesn't blacken like the iron does. I don't think you will get that effect with wootz.

[A. G. Maisey]

This is a recounting of something I have seen, it is most definitely not any sort of recommendation for anybody to practice.

Before I met Pak Parman ( Empu Suparman) I had already been staining blades by use of several different methods, at that time I found the most effective to be the brushing method. Pak Parman introduced me to a different method that produces by far the best results of any method I have tried. I will not give any advice here, nor in writing, on how to use this method because it is has far greater potential for danger than any other method.

However --- when I was taught this method by Pak Parman, it started from buying the warangan and grinding it up to a powder.

This grinding was done in the mortar and pestle that his wife used in the kitchen to prepare food.

Admitted, Pak Parman placed a piece of plastic bag over the grinding surfaces of both mortar and pestle, but this plastic soon broke through, and the reason he used the plastic was not to prevent contamination of the kitchen utensils, but to prevent loss of too much of the warangan --- Javanese mortars and pestles are made from a very grainy volcanic rock that has a pock marked surface which retains some of whatever is ground in it.

Pak Parman lived into his mid-seventies, and his passing was due not to the effects of arsenic, but due to the effects of an even more deadly poison:- TOBACCO.

Arsenic has two faces.

Yes, we know it as a poison, but it has been used as a medicine since ancient times.

http://molinterv.aspetjournals.org/c...nt/full/5/2/60

This article is worth the read.

The length of time that warangan or arsenic needs to be allowed to stand after mixing up the suspension depends upon the method used.

For both my preferred method, and for the brushing method, ten or fifteen minutes is usually sufficient, just enough time to allow the floating droplets of powder to sink to the bottom of the fluid.

If using the soak method it is necessary to allow the powder to sit for longer in the fluid.

[kulbuntet]

Alan,

This method your dont wanna get in to is called Nyek?

[A. G. Maisey]

Never heard it called that, but given the meaning of nyek, that would fit.

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

This method your dont wanna get in to is called Nyek?

Dear Kulbuntet,
If you stain your keris like the way you paint something with warangan -- with for instance, paint brush -- then this method is called "nyek" (the "e" spelled as vocal "e" in "church", and "k" consonant as spelled as ending consonant "g"). This method of "nyek" is very popular among keris traditionalist (old people in the past) in Yogyakarta area, for staining old kerises. The result is not contrast if you compare with "soaking method"...

The other method, called as "koloh" method. Soaking the blade in "blandongan" (special place for staining kerises). Koloh method vastly used among keris people in Solo, East Java, Madura, Bali. More complicated than "nyek" method, because you must master each character of the warangan liquid. "Warangan galak" (quick reacting warangan liquid) is not good for blades with "pamor sanak" (?). But is good for blades with "pamor byor" (contrast pamor, with pamor material such as nickel -- bright type of pamor). For blades with "pamor sanak" then it is better if you use "warangan nom" (very soft warangan with very slow reacting of blackening the blade). Some staining specialist in Solo, sometimes push the blade with inner part of fingers (this practice of course, is dangerous...) to push the sanak pamor...

If you choose the "nyek" method, then you simply crushed the warangan, mixed it with "air jeruk nipis" (squeezed lime liquid), then brushed the blade with warangan. Of course, you must first "mutih" (brushed the blade with lime liquid and cream soap many time, then brush and brush with lime liquid until "white" as if it is painted with "metalic paint"...)

The "koloh" method is not that simple. The first absolute thing to do is "mutih" your blade perfectly, then soak your blade in "blandongan" with warangan fluid... It will waste your time, and you will fail, if you don't do the "mutih" process perfectly

GANJAWULUNG

[David]

Originally Posted by ganjawulung

If you choose the "nyek" method, then you simply crushed the warangan, mixed it with "air jeruk nipis" (squeezed lime liquid), then brushed the blade with warangan. Of course, you must first "mutih" (brushed the blade with lime liquid and cream soap many time, then brush and brush with lime liquid until "white" as if it is painted with "metalic paint"...)

Ganja, i am by no means a expert at staining blades. I have had fairly satisfactory results though. I am confused by what you call "mutih", firstly because it is the first i have heard of it and secondly because i do not know what you mean by "cream soap". I do, of course, get my blades "white" before i begin the staining processes. I am always interested in anything that can improve my results so maybe you could explain "mutih" further.

[kulbuntet]

Dear GANJAWULUNG,

I thought it was the other way around?

SIRAMAN (BATHING) METHOD
There are other types of bathing:
1. Nyek, a mixture of citrus with warangan and cemengan (darkened aste water of marangi). Whitened keris are sun dried between 8 and 11 in the morning. After keris is warm, fingers are dipped into the mixture and pressed into tosan aji from hilt to tip until the tosan aji becomes black. Then, water is poured to the tosan aji and brushed with ash. This step is called dikeplok. Then the blade is brushed carefully so the black layer stays. Next, tosan aji is wiped and sun dried. This process is repeated until desired result is acquired. Next, tosan aji is washed with ash to remove the citrus acid. Then washed with clean water and sun dried. After tosan aji is dry, it is oiled.
2. Blonon (koyoh), similar to nyek, but, tosan aji is not pressed with fingers but brushed to apply warangan. After tosan aji is dark, it is immediately being dikeplok with ash. This process is repeated until the ornaments boldens.
3. Koloh, using other place, whitened tosan aji is dipped into citrus warangan mixture with cemengan. After a few minutes, tosan aji is lifted and dried. Then, water is poured and dikeplok. The process is repeated and tosan aji is not sun dried. The key factors of the success of this method lie on the keplok step. The black color on iron can slowly sink in to the iron.

regards

Edit,

I think i may understand what GANJAWULUNG means with the term corrosif (pls correct me iff im wrong!). Not corrosif as in acid, but like in reactable. I does react to the iron. The blacker the iron becomes, the ticker the reacted layer of iron. The more the iron is "eaten"(reacted to a arsenic iron compound). Iff you do this every year, like in surra month usual is... in years it will eat a piece of your keris...