Chinese sabre blade believed of late Ming dynasty with svastika markings

Battara · 2nd August 2009, 11:03 PM

There is some evidence that the Greeks got this symbol from contact with India, perhaps even before Alexander the Great.

Tatyana Dianova · 3rd August 2009, 10:29 PM

Another Japanese example: svastika theme on the 'habaki'

Jens Nordlunde · 3rd August 2009, 10:46 PM

Tatyana, your pictures are, as always, very good

.
Like Battara writes - the svastica is ancient, very ancient, and it is likely that he is right about from where it origins.
Like always we have many questions, but very few answers.

Jeff Pringle · 3rd August 2009, 11:00 PM

Detail of Plate LXI from Behmer’s “Das zweischneidige Schwert der germanischen Völkerwanderungszeit”

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2009, 12:34 AM

Thanks again everybody for the ongoing and great responses!
It is truly interesting that the Greeks likely acquired this symbolism from India, and of course probably from thier incursions.
Great illustrations of the Japanese use of the symbol, which I had not been too familiar with, and these are really awe inspiring.....that habaki is unbelievable Tatyana! As Jens notes, your photos really are magnificent.

Jeff, the Behmer photo really is interesting. Does it note what period this element is from, and more about it? Thank you for posting that. As I had found earlier, these symbols seem to have early origins into the Neolithic period.

All best regards,
Jim

Tatyana Dianova · 4th August 2009, 09:52 AM

Thank you all for paying me compliments. Really it is the sword and its craftsmen who deserve the praise, and I have only taken a quick shot yesterday using camera flash

My example is pretty late (I believe it is from 19th century) and pretty traditional. Jeff's sword is much older, from the times of the Great Migration, as seen by its caption ("Two-edged sword from the times of Germanic migration"). But I agree that svastika should be much older - to see neolitic examples would be really nice...

Jeff Pringle · 4th August 2009, 03:31 PM

That would be a 7th century sword, Behmer’s Type VIII; and since it was found in Sweden it is probably the previously mentioned one from the museum in Stockholm.

3rd August 2009, 10:29 PM	#2
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 743	Another Japanese example: svastika theme on the 'habaki' Attached Images

3rd August 2009, 10:46 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Tatyana, your pictures are, as always, very good. Like Battara writes - the svastica is ancient, very ancient, and it is likely that he is right about from where it origins. Like always we have many questions, but very few answers.

3rd August 2009, 11:00 PM	#4
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Detail of Plate LXI from Behmer’s “Das zweischneidige Schwert der germanischen Völkerwanderungszeit” Attached Images

2nd August 2009, 11:03 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,345	There is some evidence that the Greeks got this symbol from contact with India, perhaps even before Alexander the Great.

4th August 2009, 12:34 AM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Thanks again everybody for the ongoing and great responses! It is truly interesting that the Greeks likely acquired this symbolism from India, and of course probably from thier incursions. Great illustrations of the Japanese use of the symbol, which I had not been too familiar with, and these are really awe inspiring.....that habaki is unbelievable Tatyana! As Jens notes, your photos really are magnificent. Jeff, the Behmer photo really is interesting. Does it note what period this element is from, and more about it? Thank you for posting that. As I had found earlier, these symbols seem to have early origins into the Neolithic period. All best regards, Jim

4th August 2009, 09:52 AM	#6
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 743	Thank you all for paying me compliments. Really it is the sword and its craftsmen who deserve the praise, and I have only taken a quick shot yesterday using camera flash My example is pretty late (I believe it is from 19th century) and pretty traditional. Jeff's sword is much older, from the times of the Great Migration, as seen by its caption ("Two-edged sword from the times of Germanic migration"). But I agree that svastika should be much older - to see neolitic examples would be really nice...

4th August 2009, 03:31 PM	#7
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	That would be a 7th century sword, Behmer’s Type VIII; and since it was found in Sweden it is probably the previously mentioned one from the museum in Stockholm.