Molar hilt, sumatran keris for comments

Gustav · 2nd August 2009, 09:33 PM

The pictures.

Battara · 2nd August 2009, 10:06 PM

I like molar hilts.

Anyway, the reason the carvings seem cruder is that it is a very difficult material to carve. Needs an expert touch.

Molar has a history in Indonesia and even the Philippines as being from "dragons tooth" and has talismanic and magical properties.

Closeups of the hilt would be nice.

Marcokeris · 2nd August 2009, 10:40 PM

Gustav
IMO a perfect combination

Also sarong is OK
Why the blade is new?? (...maybe ...because there is no contrast between the colour of steel and iron??)

Gustav · 2nd August 2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Gustav
IMO a perfect combination

Also sarong is OK
Why the blade is new?? (...maybe ...because there is no contrast between the colour of steel and iron??)

Thank you very much, Marcokeris!

I have very little experience. When I see keris at Malay Art Gallery page or on some great threads here, there is the wear out on the edges etc. This blade seems to be much to perfect.

Only when I see the pesi, it seems to have some age... I really don't know.

But anyway, I don't like so much this high contrasting stain on a non javanese blade (if it isn't Madurese in this case, of course

)

Any comments, please...

The blade is 32,6 cm (12,83 inches), pesi 5,3 (2,09).

Gustav · 2nd August 2009, 11:25 PM

Some more pics. Tomorrow I will try to take some close-ups.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2009, 11:59 PM

I do not necessarily dislike geraham hilts.

They can be either good or bad, crude or refined. It is almost impossible to find a finely worked Javanese planar geraham hilt, but Bugis and Palembang styles are often quite finely worked. A couple of years ago I was offered two Bugis ones, that were as good as anything I have seen in ivory, regretably they were far too expensive, so I did not buy them.

The pic is of a geraham hilt on an odd little weapon in the Musium Radya Pustaka in Solo, Jawa Tengah. I've coveted this hilt since the first time I saw it more than 30 years ago.

Incidentally, that is not a new, or even recent, blade.

Sajen · 3rd August 2009, 12:10 AM

Hi Gustav,

I also like molar hilts when they finely worked and this one seems from not bad quality. I also would like to see some closeups from the hilt. The blade don't look recent to my eyes and the pamor is very nice.

sajen

David · 3rd August 2009, 12:44 AM

Gustav, i am not sure where you got the idea that no one here likes this material for hilts. I think i have expressed in the past that i thought molar was a difficult material to render fine detail in, but i have seen many more that one example that i thought desirable.
I also agree with Alan that this is not a recent keris and is a fine example at that.

Gustav · 3rd August 2009, 01:20 PM

Thank you all very much for the comments!

For the keris: I have one unpleasant characteristic - I am very critical to the things I really like, for which I am not indifferent. I am very glad to read, the blade can have some age.

Here the close ups of hilt and one, in which you can see the surface of the blade close to real appearance in life.

Gustav · 3rd August 2009, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I do not necessarily dislike geraham hilts.

They can be either good or bad, crude or refined. It is almost impossible to find a finely worked Javanese planar geraham hilt, but Bugis and Palembang styles are often quite finely worked. A couple of years ago I was offered two Bugis ones, that were as good as anything I have seen in ivory, regretably they were far too expensive, so I did not buy them.

The pic is of a geraham hilt on an odd little weapon in the Musium Radya Pustaka in Solo, Jawa Tengah. I've coveted this hilt since the first time I saw it more than 30 years ago.

Incidentally, that is not a new, or even recent, blade.

Dear Alan,

at the place, where my hilt has an eye, the hilt from museum shows a whole inscription!

A very interesting knife with very nice sheath. Funny to see these sort of tribal-art figures on the knife, the wayang (?) figure on the sheath and Jawa Demam as hilt, with javanese mendak.

And also, how similar the small figure on the knife and Jawa Demam are.

Rick · 3rd August 2009, 03:48 PM

Very nice keris Gustav .
Your photography is quite acceptable too .

When I view hilts of this material I find it very hard to concentrate on the form; the material really distracts my eye .

I do like the stuff though .

lemmythesmith · 3rd August 2009, 10:30 PM

Hi all, that's a nice keris Gustav, I really like it. Does anyone know if these hilts were ever made of mammoth molar or are they of elephant molar only?

Gustav · 3rd August 2009, 10:57 PM

Rick,

thank you for the compliment, but you can not imagine, how many pictures I have deleted, and even now, sharp is none of them

.

About molar:

Often, when material itself has such a level of expression, elaborate details can be even disturbing.

I think, more then in carving of some other material, the craftsmen must feel and bring out in the most atractive way the natural qualities of molar. I guess, belief of a magic quality appears, when the craftsmen must work with a "predictated" material, that already has its own expression. A little bit similar feeling appears in carved wood hilts with pelet (most of them probably kendhit).

(But this are only my thoughts, without any importance.)

2nd August 2009, 09:33 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Pictures The pictures. Attached Images

2nd August 2009, 11:25 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Some more pics. Tomorrow I will try to take some close-ups. Attached Images

2nd August 2009, 11:59 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	I do not necessarily dislike geraham hilts. They can be either good or bad, crude or refined. It is almost impossible to find a finely worked Javanese planar geraham hilt, but Bugis and Palembang styles are often quite finely worked. A couple of years ago I was offered two Bugis ones, that were as good as anything I have seen in ivory, regretably they were far too expensive, so I did not buy them. The pic is of a geraham hilt on an odd little weapon in the Musium Radya Pustaka in Solo, Jawa Tengah. I've coveted this hilt since the first time I saw it more than 30 years ago. Incidentally, that is not a new, or even recent, blade. Attached Images

3rd August 2009, 01:20 PM	#9
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Thank you all very much for the comments! For the keris: I have one unpleasant characteristic - I am very critical to the things I really like, for which I am not indifferent. I am very glad to read, the blade can have some age. Here the close ups of hilt and one, in which you can see the surface of the blade close to real appearance in life. Attached Images

2nd August 2009, 10:06 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I like molar hilts. Anyway, the reason the carvings seem cruder is that it is a very difficult material to carve. Needs an expert touch. Molar has a history in Indonesia and even the Philippines as being from "dragons tooth" and has talismanic and magical properties. Closeups of the hilt would be nice.

2nd August 2009, 10:40 PM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Gustav IMO a perfect combination Also sarong is OK Why the blade is new?? (...maybe ...because there is no contrast between the colour of steel and iron??)

3rd August 2009, 12:10 AM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Hi Gustav, I also like molar hilts when they finely worked and this one seems from not bad quality. I also would like to see some closeups from the hilt. The blade don't look recent to my eyes and the pamor is very nice. sajen

3rd August 2009, 12:44 AM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Gustav, i am not sure where you got the idea that no one here likes this material for hilts. I think i have expressed in the past that i thought molar was a difficult material to render fine detail in, but i have seen many more that one example that i thought desirable. I also agree with Alan that this is not a recent keris and is a fine example at that.

3rd August 2009, 03:48 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Very nice keris Gustav . Your photography is quite acceptable too . When I view hilts of this material I find it very hard to concentrate on the form; the material really distracts my eye . I do like the stuff though .

3rd August 2009, 10:30 PM	#12
lemmythesmith Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 93	Hi all, that's a nice keris Gustav, I really like it. Does anyone know if these hilts were ever made of mammoth molar or are they of elephant molar only?

3rd August 2009, 10:57 PM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Rick, thank you for the compliment, but you can not imagine, how many pictures I have deleted, and even now, sharp is none of them . About molar: Often, when material itself has such a level of expression, elaborate details can be even disturbing. I think, more then in carving of some other material, the craftsmen must feel and bring out in the most atractive way the natural qualities of molar. I guess, belief of a magic quality appears, when the craftsmen must work with a "predictated" material, that already has its own expression. A little bit similar feeling appears in carved wood hilts with pelet (most of them probably kendhit). (But this are only my thoughts, without any importance.)