Asian execution sword

Gavin Nugent · 1st August 2009, 03:25 PM

Thank you for sharing Jos.

Lots of interesting research still to be done on this piece, in particular the Coin motif in the blades. Here is a pair of knives I have in my collection of Chinese weapons http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s064_full.html
They share the same coin inlay, though mine show it in the blade and the hilt.
Whilst Klas notes yours as maybe being north China I ask, would a Muslim minority display Taoist symbols??? The knives I show are most definately south China in origins though who really knows with trade and such, mine could have been fashioned in the north under direction of someone who came from the south or yours could have been made in the south under direction of someone from the north, such if the global village of old as it is today.
I would love to see other examples of this type of dao and or the coin inlay in blades or hilts.
Show em if you got em good peoples.

Gav

Jim McDougall · 1st August 2009, 06:58 PM

The more I have looked into this intriguing sabre, it seems that more very deep history appear involved with it. The distinct widening of the blade into what became the 'oxtail' in China does of course recall these blades in the yelmaned blades seen on certain Islamic swords, but actually does not signify Muslim association here. The Muslim minorities and influences I typically consider in China are usually situated to the west in China's frontiers in those regions, and it does seem that certain hybrid weapon forms do occur in such cases. This sword is in my opinion, of the type of ring pommel dadao that is profoundly important in the history of China, especially in the case of the Ba Gua (Eight Trigrams) examples, which correspond directly to this type.

These are associated with Northern China, and often with the followers of Taoism as well as the secret societies who sought to restore the Ming rule. In 1813, a significant event took place which is not well known in history outside focused study on China, the "Eight Trigrams" or "Millenarian" rebellion. This is also termed the 'Ba Gua rebellion'.
I am looking for photos I have of one of these swords, from research about 13 years ago, which has the Ba Gua symbol (yin and yang surrounded by the trigrams) as well as incriptions claiming it was from the time of Wanli (Ming emperor 1572-1620). It is claimed that this sword is from the time of this rebellion, due to the distinct symbolism engraved on the blade. It is this form of ring pommel, and though I was hesitant to believe the blade was actually as early as Wanli, authorities assured me that very early period would not be unusual for these shaped blades.

Another insciption said to be the name of the sword inscribed in Chinese characters on the blade uses the phrase 'kill demons'.

It is important to note here that the reference to Wanli may only be in the form of patriotic recalling of the Ming emperor, however the 'kill demons' phrase is significant.

The interesting shape of the ring pommel on the example we are discussing I have discovered appears to be the gourd. While these in Chinese symbolism associate this with longevity, it also expressly addresses the exorcism and expelling of evil spirits. The inlaid discs on the blade, as noted by Gav, are also Daoist/Taoist symbols.

Taoism is of course a philosophical and religious tradition which is, much as many beliefs, followed in many cases somewhat syncretically with other religions, and its symbolism both materially and temporally extremely complex.
The use of the sword in dispelling evil spirits is well established in Taoist ritual, which seems of course very much like the Buddhist rituals involving the 'phurbu' in Tibet. There are weapons in China known as ghost swords or daggers I believe in much the same parlance.

Here we have a beautiful example of a Chinese dadao, unique decorative motif carrying distinct Taoist symbolism, and a style of blade which appears quite early, possibly 17th century, and apparantly intended for use associated with symbolic rituals.

A fascinating run, and exciting history!!! Thanks very much for sharing this!

All best regards,
Jim

Maskell · 5th August 2009, 01:44 AM

Greetings,

Finally have high speed Internet so my first attempt to post pictures. When I looked at this thread last week that pommel was familiar. I have about 300 old Chinese swords and went through one of the piles today and found one. I assume the sword is 19th. century but unfortunately the blade is broken and missing the portion just forward of the kelij type step up on the spine.

The 2 damascus blades below have the copper star inlayed very much like the one in this thread however both of these are brand new swords, I did see an old Chinese short sword or long knife about a month ago that had a copper star inlay but it had a suspicious look that it had been added recently. I'm not suggesting that the sword in this thread had the inlay added, I don't know but I think interesting discussion.

All the Best,
Maskell
Jerry

Maskell · 5th August 2009, 05:09 PM

OOOOPS... found another one with this style pommel in my keeper pile, the reason it was there is that it has an inscription on the blade. I tried to take a picture of the kanji and also tried to scan a rubbing but just not clear enough so I did a drawing of it. Can anyone read it or give its meaning?

Thanks in advance if anyone can.

Best,
Maskell
Jerry

1st August 2009, 03:25 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Dao Thank you for sharing Jos. Lots of interesting research still to be done on this piece, in particular the Coin motif in the blades. Here is a pair of knives I have in my collection of Chinese weapons http://www.swordsantiqueweapons.com/s064_full.html They share the same coin inlay, though mine show it in the blade and the hilt. Whilst Klas notes yours as maybe being north China I ask, would a Muslim minority display Taoist symbols??? The knives I show are most definately south China in origins though who really knows with trade and such, mine could have been fashioned in the north under direction of someone who came from the south or yours could have been made in the south under direction of someone from the north, such if the global village of old as it is today. I would love to see other examples of this type of dao and or the coin inlay in blades or hilts. Show em if you got em good peoples. Gav

1st August 2009, 06:58 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,189	The more I have looked into this intriguing sabre, it seems that more very deep history appear involved with it. The distinct widening of the blade into what became the 'oxtail' in China does of course recall these blades in the yelmaned blades seen on certain Islamic swords, but actually does not signify Muslim association here. The Muslim minorities and influences I typically consider in China are usually situated to the west in China's frontiers in those regions, and it does seem that certain hybrid weapon forms do occur in such cases. This sword is in my opinion, of the type of ring pommel dadao that is profoundly important in the history of China, especially in the case of the Ba Gua (Eight Trigrams) examples, which correspond directly to this type. These are associated with Northern China, and often with the followers of Taoism as well as the secret societies who sought to restore the Ming rule. In 1813, a significant event took place which is not well known in history outside focused study on China, the "Eight Trigrams" or "Millenarian" rebellion. This is also termed the 'Ba Gua rebellion'. I am looking for photos I have of one of these swords, from research about 13 years ago, which has the Ba Gua symbol (yin and yang surrounded by the trigrams) as well as incriptions claiming it was from the time of Wanli (Ming emperor 1572-1620). It is claimed that this sword is from the time of this rebellion, due to the distinct symbolism engraved on the blade. It is this form of ring pommel, and though I was hesitant to believe the blade was actually as early as Wanli, authorities assured me that very early period would not be unusual for these shaped blades. Another insciption said to be the name of the sword inscribed in Chinese characters on the blade uses the phrase 'kill demons'. It is important to note here that the reference to Wanli may only be in the form of patriotic recalling of the Ming emperor, however the 'kill demons' phrase is significant. The interesting shape of the ring pommel on the example we are discussing I have discovered appears to be the gourd. While these in Chinese symbolism associate this with longevity, it also expressly addresses the exorcism and expelling of evil spirits. The inlaid discs on the blade, as noted by Gav, are also Daoist/Taoist symbols. Taoism is of course a philosophical and religious tradition which is, much as many beliefs, followed in many cases somewhat syncretically with other religions, and its symbolism both materially and temporally extremely complex. The use of the sword in dispelling evil spirits is well established in Taoist ritual, which seems of course very much like the Buddhist rituals involving the 'phurbu' in Tibet. There are weapons in China known as ghost swords or daggers I believe in much the same parlance. Here we have a beautiful example of a Chinese dadao, unique decorative motif carrying distinct Taoist symbolism, and a style of blade which appears quite early, possibly 17th century, and apparantly intended for use associated with symbolic rituals. A fascinating run, and exciting history!!! Thanks very much for sharing this! All best regards, Jim Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 2nd August 2009 at 05:20 AM.

5th August 2009, 01:44 AM	#3
Maskell Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 38	Greetings, Finally have high speed Internet so my first attempt to post pictures. When I looked at this thread last week that pommel was familiar. I have about 300 old Chinese swords and went through one of the piles today and found one. I assume the sword is 19th. century but unfortunately the blade is broken and missing the portion just forward of the kelij type step up on the spine. The 2 damascus blades below have the copper star inlayed very much like the one in this thread however both of these are brand new swords, I did see an old Chinese short sword or long knife about a month ago that had a copper star inlay but it had a suspicious look that it had been added recently. I'm not suggesting that the sword in this thread had the inlay added, I don't know but I think interesting discussion. All the Best, Maskell Jerry Attached Images

5th August 2009, 05:09 PM	#4
Maskell Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 38	OOOOPS... found another one with this style pommel in my keeper pile, the reason it was there is that it has an inscription on the blade. I tried to take a picture of the kanji and also tried to scan a rubbing but just not clear enough so I did a drawing of it. Can anyone read it or give its meaning? Thanks in advance if anyone can. Best, Maskell Jerry Attached Images