Asian execution sword

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2009, 05:28 PM

Hi Jos,
This attractive piece is actually a Chinese dadao which appears to have been remounted in the 19th century, much as many of these were. The blade does appear to have good age to it, and Im unclear on the copper inlaid markings which seem very unusual on these. The gold colored mounts are also extremely atypical for these, which usually had simple iron mounts, and I have never seen one of the ring pommels with this unusual shape.

It is a common western perception to term most of these heavy bladed Chinese swords 'execution swords' which became an almost cliche' during colonial activity there on the latter 19th and into early 20th century. These swords, with the heavy 'oxtail' type blades were used exclusively by civilian martial artists, and dramatic demonstrations by these martial artists, especially during the "Boxer Rebellion" of 1900 lent more to these perceptions.

It would be great to see some close ups of the blade, and know more on these copper (?) inlays, where they are positioned. This old blade seems quite deliberately decorated and perhaps was refurbished in this manner for some votive or ceremonial purpose. As always I look forward to comments from those more experienced with Chinese weapons.

Also Jos, I'd like to welcome you to our forums, and I'm really glad you joined us. Your website is extremely impressive! Very nicely done. I'm sure you will enjoy discussions with a number of the members here who extremely interested in African weapons as well. It is always great to add to the fantastic core of knowledge we have enjoyed here in discussing these intriguing weapons.

We presently have a thread going on some mysterious markings on a kaskara, which is developing into a more in depth look into the markings found on the blades of these Sudanese swords. I would really appreciate your input, and if you might add your insight by sharing examples you may have encountered.

All best regards,
Jim

Atlantia · 29th July 2009, 05:37 PM

Hi Jos,
Welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing this fantastic piece!

Jim,
Excellent observations on these interesting weapons, you've already answered several questions I was pondering.
I can see this gearing up to be a very interesting thread.
Regards
Gene

Spearcollector · 29th July 2009, 05:50 PM

Hi Jim,

Thanks for you fast reply.
Here I have some more pictures of the copper inlay, there are on bouth sides.
The iron on the handle is, I think painted in gold collor.
We will see later on other reactions.

May this is more intresting, this was also one of the knifes I found yesterday

The last picture, its also in the new book of Jan Elsen, its a Ngbandi knife

Kind regards
Jos

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2009, 06:42 PM

Gene, thank you! I agree, definitely gearing up nicely, and I hope we get some input on these inlays. Its been a while since we discussed these ring pommel Chinese dadao, and I'd really like to get some more detailed review on them.

Jos, thank you for the closeups, and the positioning of these at either end of channels recalls similar use of gold metal filled discs seen on certain sword blades in Transcaucasian regions (Black Sea knives/ Laz bichagi) and I believe on Central Asian as well. I believe it may possibly be a Persian affectation but cannot recall offhand. Also, it seems that copper or gold colored inlay is something often found on blades, actually from very early times. On Chinese swords, the first thing that comes to mind is the celestially arranged copper dots in 'seven stars' arrangement for the constellation.
Obviously these inlays do not correspond to that symbolism, but just mentioned to note the general practice.
Hopefully others might recognize the 'star shape' inlay and have seen other blades with these filled inlays between fullers or channels.

Interesting knife of Ngbandi, do you have more details" Are those dots at blade center as well? Could you note the details on the book you have mentioned also. I always appreciate knowing details of references cited so that we might seek that reference for our own libraries and its always good to have that information for rechecking.

All best regards,
Jim

Atlantia · 29th July 2009, 07:15 PM

Could we get some dimensions and weight for the Dadao please Jos?

Spearcollector · 29th July 2009, 07:22 PM

Hi,

The dimensions and weight for the Dadao are:
total lengt 110 cm the blade self is 84 cm
and the weight is 1,300 kg.

Kind regards.
Jos

KuKulzA28 · 29th July 2009, 10:05 PM

I find the ox-tail type blade interesting as the stereotypical Da-dao has the more rectangular looking tip.

Atlantia · 30th July 2009, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spearcollector

Hi,

The dimensions and weight for the Dadao are:
total lengt 110 cm the blade self is 84 cm
and the weight is 1,300 kg.

Kind regards.
Jos

Hi Jos,

reason I asked about the weight/size is that I wanted to compare the scale with a Dao I have:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=chinese

Mines a rough old thing in need of a rebuild.
It weighs just under 1.5kg, total length: 92cm, blade length 75cm.

Regards
gene

Atlantia · 30th July 2009, 10:07 PM

Hi again Jos,
Not just 'bumping' your thread

I think I should ahev been clearer in my last post.
These heavy swords are often seen marked 'executioners sword' by dealers. I've often wondered (and Jim has kindly shone some light on this) If they were indeed for beheading or actually a two handed (hand and a half) fighting sword.
My big old Dao is really heavy and the centre of gravity is about 25cm down from the guard so really far forwards. A definate 'swinging' sword.

Its difficult to find film of large heavy dao's or Dadao's being used. Have a look at this youtube clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ETMj8n6CM

Regards
Gene

29th July 2009, 05:50 PM	#3
Spearcollector Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11	asian execution sword Hi Jim, Thanks for you fast reply. Here I have some more pictures of the copper inlay, there are on bouth sides. The iron on the handle is, I think painted in gold collor. We will see later on other reactions. May this is more intresting, this was also one of the knifes I found yesterday The last picture, its also in the new book of Jan Elsen, its a Ngbandi knife Kind regards Jos Attached Images

29th July 2009, 07:22 PM	#6
Spearcollector Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 11	asian execution sword Hi, The dimensions and weight for the Dadao are: total lengt 110 cm the blade self is 84 cm and the weight is 1,300 kg. Kind regards. Jos

29th July 2009, 05:28 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Hi Jos, This attractive piece is actually a Chinese dadao which appears to have been remounted in the 19th century, much as many of these were. The blade does appear to have good age to it, and Im unclear on the copper inlaid markings which seem very unusual on these. The gold colored mounts are also extremely atypical for these, which usually had simple iron mounts, and I have never seen one of the ring pommels with this unusual shape. It is a common western perception to term most of these heavy bladed Chinese swords 'execution swords' which became an almost cliche' during colonial activity there on the latter 19th and into early 20th century. These swords, with the heavy 'oxtail' type blades were used exclusively by civilian martial artists, and dramatic demonstrations by these martial artists, especially during the "Boxer Rebellion" of 1900 lent more to these perceptions. It would be great to see some close ups of the blade, and know more on these copper (?) inlays, where they are positioned. This old blade seems quite deliberately decorated and perhaps was refurbished in this manner for some votive or ceremonial purpose. As always I look forward to comments from those more experienced with Chinese weapons. Also Jos, I'd like to welcome you to our forums, and I'm really glad you joined us. Your website is extremely impressive! Very nicely done. I'm sure you will enjoy discussions with a number of the members here who extremely interested in African weapons as well. It is always great to add to the fantastic core of knowledge we have enjoyed here in discussing these intriguing weapons. We presently have a thread going on some mysterious markings on a kaskara, which is developing into a more in depth look into the markings found on the blades of these Sudanese swords. I would really appreciate your input, and if you might add your insight by sharing examples you may have encountered. All best regards, Jim

29th July 2009, 05:37 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Jos, Welcome to the forums and thanks for sharing this fantastic piece! Jim, Excellent observations on these interesting weapons, you've already answered several questions I was pondering. I can see this gearing up to be a very interesting thread. Regards Gene

29th July 2009, 06:42 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	Gene, thank you! I agree, definitely gearing up nicely, and I hope we get some input on these inlays. Its been a while since we discussed these ring pommel Chinese dadao, and I'd really like to get some more detailed review on them. Jos, thank you for the closeups, and the positioning of these at either end of channels recalls similar use of gold metal filled discs seen on certain sword blades in Transcaucasian regions (Black Sea knives/ Laz bichagi) and I believe on Central Asian as well. I believe it may possibly be a Persian affectation but cannot recall offhand. Also, it seems that copper or gold colored inlay is something often found on blades, actually from very early times. On Chinese swords, the first thing that comes to mind is the celestially arranged copper dots in 'seven stars' arrangement for the constellation. Obviously these inlays do not correspond to that symbolism, but just mentioned to note the general practice. Hopefully others might recognize the 'star shape' inlay and have seen other blades with these filled inlays between fullers or channels. Interesting knife of Ngbandi, do you have more details" Are those dots at blade center as well? Could you note the details on the book you have mentioned also. I always appreciate knowing details of references cited so that we might seek that reference for our own libraries and its always good to have that information for rechecking. All best regards, Jim

29th July 2009, 07:15 PM	#5
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Could we get some dimensions and weight for the Dadao please Jos?

29th July 2009, 10:05 PM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I find the ox-tail type blade interesting as the stereotypical Da-dao has the more rectangular looking tip.

30th July 2009, 10:07 PM	#9
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi again Jos, Not just 'bumping' your thread I think I should ahev been clearer in my last post. These heavy swords are often seen marked 'executioners sword' by dealers. I've often wondered (and Jim has kindly shone some light on this) If they were indeed for beheading or actually a two handed (hand and a half) fighting sword. My big old Dao is really heavy and the centre of gravity is about 25cm down from the guard so really far forwards. A definate 'swinging' sword. Its difficult to find film of large heavy dao's or Dadao's being used. Have a look at this youtube clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ETMj8n6CM Regards Gene