Staining keris with Chinese warangan

kulbuntet · 25th July 2009, 05:22 PM

Temperature!!!!! Of solution AND Blade!

Rick · 25th July 2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kulbuntet

Temperature!!!!! Of solution AND Blade!

A sunny day should give enough heat .

harimauhk · 26th July 2009, 12:06 AM

Maybe I should maranggi it up on the roof on a nice sunny day. Temperatures are usually in the high 20s/low 30s here in HK during the summer.

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2009, 10:58 AM

Give it too much sun while you're actually applying the suspension, and it'll go too dark.

Ideal for the brush or pinch method is a open to skylight but not sunlight. You can use sunlight to dry after the rinses, but not while actually applying.

Temperature should be not too hot, not too cold. Too hot causes to dry too quickly, too cool causes to dry too slowly and you often finish up with a greeny-yellowy mess. 25C-30C sounds good.

Same with humidity:- too humid it dries to slowly, too dry it dries too quickly.

I've just said that direct sunlight will cause it to go too dark, but for somebody with a lot of experience, hot direct sunlight can be useful, provided you're prepared to do it again and again and again and clean off between stains. You need the experience to give it just the lightest of light touches when it is approaching excellent. Probably the best stain jobs I've ever done have been done in direct sunlight, but I honestly cannot recommend that everybody do it this way, because it is far, far too hard to control.

harimauhk · 26th July 2009, 11:01 AM

I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass...

Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

A. G. Maisey · 26th July 2009, 01:49 PM

It is most definitely an art.

Its also something that no matter how much experience you have, there are no gaurantees that you might not have to clean off and re-do several times before you get the result you want.

To me, 80% does sound too high.

You do not need to get the blade dripping wet. I mix the suspension, wait till all the arsenic sinks, wait a bit longer, then just barely touch the bristles of a soft old toothbrush in the fluid, and rub it on:- blade is just barely damp.

I have never tried to do this job through glass. I don't like the idea. Might work, I don't know.But inside there is no breeze, and a little bit of breeze helps the drying process.

If the blade is really wet, it just will not go black, more likely go yellowish- brown.

You need to get the surface to go really sticky, then you apply the suspension again and keep working it into the blade until it goes sticky again. You keep on doing this till the colour darkens, then you rinse it off, and blade goes pale again, you dry it, and start the process again, and you keep on doing this until when you rinse it off, it stays black. The big trick is to judge what it will look like after you rinse and dry it, so you know when to stop. Do the job in cloudy weather and the white will not sparkle.Don't ask me why, I don't know.

Rick · 26th July 2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass...

Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

Not sure about Alan, but I would be concerned about fumes in an indoor setting .

Got a balcony or deck ?

harimauhk · 26th July 2009, 09:04 PM

Hormat Alan and Rick,

Good stuff. I now know I was definitely using too much warangan. I live up on the 12th floor, which is actually 13 floors above street level because my block of flats is on a slight incline. There is usually a fairly good breeze in my living room if the windows are open. I don't have a balcony or deck, so I think I'll mranggi the keris out in the corridor: since this building was built in the late '60s, there is a fair amount of indirect sunlight out there during the day and lots of airflow. The elderly gent down the hall hangs his laundry up out there and I sometimes practice my silat outside my front door when it's raining out!

I'll probably get some odd looks from the neighbours if I'm sitting out there painting warangan onto a keris, but I get those looks all the time anyway, so I'm not too bothered.

I think the process will go much better this time around. I'd like to work the file marks off using coconut husk as suggested, so I'll pick up a coconut later in the week. They are often used in religious practices in Hinduism, which is the only time we've ever used them at home...

Jai

kulbuntet · 29th July 2009, 11:22 AM

Indoor setting is posible.... but some of you know..if the balls get to tingle....get out of there

25th July 2009, 05:22 PM	#1
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Temperature!!!!! Of solution AND Blade!

26th July 2009, 12:06 AM	#3
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Maybe I should maranggi it up on the roof on a nice sunny day. Temperatures are usually in the high 20s/low 30s here in HK during the summer.

26th July 2009, 10:58 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Give it too much sun while you're actually applying the suspension, and it'll go too dark. Ideal for the brush or pinch method is a open to skylight but not sunlight. You can use sunlight to dry after the rinses, but not while actually applying. Temperature should be not too hot, not too cold. Too hot causes to dry too quickly, too cool causes to dry too slowly and you often finish up with a greeny-yellowy mess. 25C-30C sounds good. Same with humidity:- too humid it dries to slowly, too dry it dries too quickly. I've just said that direct sunlight will cause it to go too dark, but for somebody with a lot of experience, hot direct sunlight can be useful, provided you're prepared to do it again and again and again and clean off between stains. You need the experience to give it just the lightest of light touches when it is approaching excellent. Probably the best stain jobs I've ever done have been done in direct sunlight, but I honestly cannot recommend that everybody do it this way, because it is far, far too hard to control.

26th July 2009, 11:01 AM	#5
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I never knew how much of an art maranggi is. It's definitely been an experience! I used lots of warangan the first time around and it didn't work, but I was really getting the keris soaking wet with it. Would that prevent the blade from going black? The humidity here also seldom goes below 80% in summer--is that too high? I have enormous bay windows in the living room, so I should be getting just the right amount of UV exposure since the light's being filtered through glass... Cheers Alan, I've learned so much from you!

26th July 2009, 01:49 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	It is most definitely an art. Its also something that no matter how much experience you have, there are no gaurantees that you might not have to clean off and re-do several times before you get the result you want. To me, 80% does sound too high. You do not need to get the blade dripping wet. I mix the suspension, wait till all the arsenic sinks, wait a bit longer, then just barely touch the bristles of a soft old toothbrush in the fluid, and rub it on:- blade is just barely damp. I have never tried to do this job through glass. I don't like the idea. Might work, I don't know.But inside there is no breeze, and a little bit of breeze helps the drying process. If the blade is really wet, it just will not go black, more likely go yellowish- brown. You need to get the surface to go really sticky, then you apply the suspension again and keep working it into the blade until it goes sticky again. You keep on doing this till the colour darkens, then you rinse it off, and blade goes pale again, you dry it, and start the process again, and you keep on doing this until when you rinse it off, it stays black. The big trick is to judge what it will look like after you rinse and dry it, so you know when to stop. Do the job in cloudy weather and the white will not sparkle.Don't ask me why, I don't know.

26th July 2009, 09:04 PM	#8
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hormat Alan and Rick, Good stuff. I now know I was definitely using too much warangan. I live up on the 12th floor, which is actually 13 floors above street level because my block of flats is on a slight incline. There is usually a fairly good breeze in my living room if the windows are open. I don't have a balcony or deck, so I think I'll mranggi the keris out in the corridor: since this building was built in the late '60s, there is a fair amount of indirect sunlight out there during the day and lots of airflow. The elderly gent down the hall hangs his laundry up out there and I sometimes practice my silat outside my front door when it's raining out! I'll probably get some odd looks from the neighbours if I'm sitting out there painting warangan onto a keris, but I get those looks all the time anyway, so I'm not too bothered. I think the process will go much better this time around. I'd like to work the file marks off using coconut husk as suggested, so I'll pick up a coconut later in the week. They are often used in religious practices in Hinduism, which is the only time we've ever used them at home... Jai

29th July 2009, 11:22 AM	#9
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Indoor setting is posible.... but some of you know..if the balls get to tingle....get out of there