Swords at the Little Big Horn (Part II)

[George Armstrong Custer]

Hi Jeff,
I've emailed Jeff Broome - who posted about the sabre found on the plains of SD - asking him for the photos he offered to send. If these arrive I'll certainly put them up here. You're right - despite the clear nonsense of it being Custer's weapon, there remains an intriguing tale around this sabre and its discovery. If the pictures arrive and are clear enough they will hopefully clear up any doubt as to whether it is marked WK&C or W&C - didn't WK&C go on to manufacture dress swords and daggers for the Third Reich?

Jim, I take your points about the lack of incentive for non-German manufacturers to 'talk up' a blade by adding Solingen to it. As to the import of German M1840 and M1860 sabres, my researches into Christopher Roby & Co., turned up a gem of an article by John D. Hamilton in the January/February 1980 issue of Man At Arms magazine, 'Christopher Roby and the Chelmsford Sword.' Hamilton writes: 'However, as war approached it became evident that there was a dire shortage of edged weapons in the North as well as the South. even well established sword manufacturers such as Ames of Chicopee were unable to initially provide sufficient swords to meet government needs. So desperate was the Union for additional edged weapons that Ames, as well as Tiffany & Co of New York, resorted to importing German cavalry sabres at the outset of the war. For these swords, the government paid premium prices. In December 1861, Roby had little difficulty in disposing of 410 [imported] cavalry sabres that had been on hand.' Roby only geared production to the making of his own M1860 cavalry sabres from July 1863 - at a unit price of $5.75, with 1864's (the year Custer's was produced) production run going up to $6.50 per unit.

As you and Tom note, the Scots did indeed set great store in associations with renowned Continental blades. Wolviex rightly points out the spelling differences amongst faux German blades - and similar discrepancies are mirrored in those found on Scots blades. I've seen examples marked 'ANDREA FA RA RA' ; 'SS ANDRIA SS FARARA SS' ; 'ANDRIA X FARARA' ; 'FARARA SAHAGUN' ; 'FERARA ELVIEHO' ; 'ANDREIA FARARA' etc. etc. etc.

Yes - the Custer 'bug' is an addictive (though fascinating) one!

Regards,
George

[Jeff D]

Hi GAC,

Through a series of takeovers and purchases they became WKC Stahl & Eisenwaren Fabrik in 1930. They produced blades for many places on the globe including Germany. I look forward to seeing the photo's.

Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Tom,
Outstanding LOL!!! The algebraic equations synopsis of these sword markings and numerics is hysterical!! thank you for the lighter side..they really do get puzzling and frustrating trying to find the intended symbolism.
Good points on the running wolf markings as well. These did end up in so many incarnations in other regions that I think they were eventually simply discarded in their original habitat. The running wolf marks did find use by the German smiths in England at Hounslow and Shotley Bridge in the 17th c. and the same type stylized running wolf became popular with Chechen swordsmiths on shashka blades described in "Chechen Arms" by I.Askhabov, p.57-61. These blades seem primarily 19th c. and are termed Ters-Maymal, with a great deal of speculation on the etymology of that term, however are distinguished by the running wolf marking.

The spelling variations on these German blade markings really does prove interesting, and in degree seem consistantly inconsistant I could not recall seeing the Salingen spelling, and Michel thank you for finding that reference in Blair!! It drives me nuts when I cant find the reference I'm looking for.

George, nicely done on the Roby article in "Man at Arms". Again, could not place that reference to the importation of German blades, and that was the exact source I needed. That was an excellent article, and good to re-reference it from the dusty archives !! (1980? was that really 25 yrs ago?yikes)

It is always amazing to see how swords and blades from such diverse provenance can be so inherently linked historically through long standing trade and political associations. Here the discussion of a Confederate sword captured in the Civil War leads to reviews of centuries of German blade industry and trade with England, Spain and Scotland.
I really appreciate you guys keeping things going with references along with excellent observations. Thanks very much

All the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Hi All,

GAC has forwarded me these photo's sent to him of the "found" Custer sword. This sword looks like an Imperial German officer's sword, or more unlikely a M1850 staff and field with a later German blade, can't tell from the pictures. Anybody any guesses?

Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Although this thread is now over two years old, and I doubt if GAC is still around, I wanted to add some new information that those so inclined might find interesting. Before adding that I would like to note on the last post from Jeff, the hilt does look like the U.S. M1850 officers, and the blade appears to me to be one of the German M1889 Imperial officers pattern blades just as Jeff suggests.

I have been here in Montana at Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument and visited the museum. There in a glass case is the huge sword we were discussing in this thread! The caption lists the sword as having been taken from a Confederate adversary by Custer just after he killed him during a running fight. This event is alleged to have taken place during the Battle of White Oak Swamp (Virginia) in August 1862.

In the resources I have consulted there is no mention of such an event involving Custer taking a sword in combat, though Robert Utley in "Cavalier in Buckskin" describing him on p.30 notes he wore "...a heavy sword, trophy of an earlier exploit, hung from his belt".

The sword is indeed extremely large with the heavy double edged dragoon type blade actually being about 37" long. With the heavy three bar brass hilt probably at least 6 " long that makes this imposing weapon pretty huge. While I could not examine the sword up close, the markings are incredibly crisp and clear except for the obscured script described at the forte of the blade. It is unusually high quality for this very familiar type of blade which was produced in large numbers in Solingen for the Spanish market. It seems that the script marking was indicative probably of special order, as obviously most of these had only the 'Spanish motto' over the central triple fuller blade and were typically narrower.

It seems unclear whether Custer actually obtained this sword as described, and it would seem quite possible that the usual 'romanticizing' of later writers may have inadvertantly 'created' this provenance. In another reference I saw with a photo and description of the sword, it is noted that the sword was given to Custer by someone in his command. This is supported by Custer's wife who wrote later in her book "Boots and Saddles" where she notes "...one of the sabres was remarkably large, and when it was given to the general during the war". In further text she notes, "...the sabre was a Damascus blade, and made of such finely tempered steel that it could be bent nearly double. It had been captured during the war, and looked as if it might have been handed down from some Spanish ancestor. On the blade was engraved a motto in that high flown language which ran " do not draw me without cause; do not sheath me without honor".

Naturally the 'sabre' was a straight dragoon broadsword and the blade had nothing to do with Damascus. It seems clear though that the term itself was construed to indicate it was of high quality. The note that it was captured during the war makes no mention of her husband making the capture.

Regardless, the sword blade itself is breathtaking, one of the highest quality I have seen of these Solingen blades, and I wanted to share this update on where it is actually located. According to the acquisition records, which I was able to view, the sword has been here since 1943 (accession #19, cat. #163 last catalogued in 1960).

All best regards,
Jim

[Jeff D]

What a surprise!!!

I have just gotten back from Calgary Alberta and a visit to the Glenbow museum. I took a number of photo's of this sword and I was going to post it here, what are the odds Jim would have just resurrected this thread?

Here is the saber and the info card seen. This is a strange one, with a British 1821 cavalry officer's hilt and what appears to be a M1860 U.S. cavalry blade. I was able to get a photo of the riccasso and make out that it is a Solingen blade unknown maker name (anyone make out any of the maker's letters).

Sorry about the poor photo's you know how museums feel about photographs.

All the best and thanks Jim for the update.
Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Jeff,
I knew I could count on you to respond!!! We have always seemed to share the same interests and it was great to be able to bring up this thread on the Custer sword. It also seems that these swords have a great deal of mystery due to the legendary tales attached to them.
The sword you have posted is intriguing also, especially the Lakota tradition about its being captured at the Little Big Horn. While it is known that Custer ordered all sabres to be left at Powder River I believe, it seems that one Native American account notes that there was a single 'long knife' there, without further description. So I suppose it is possible, much as with these iconic battles including the Alamo, the mysteries will never be solved.

It is not surprising to see the Solingen blade on the M1821 British hilt which would have been quite likely in Canada, although it seems if would be regimentally marked. Many of these Solingen cavalry blades were used for U.S. sabres, especially the M1840. It also seems that there are numerous instances which illustrate Native Americans had cavalry sabres, but the use seems ceremonial and these had elaborately decorated cases, and of the examples seen, they appear to have British hilts. Since the Sioux tribes moved across the Canadian border so frequently, it would seem plausible that these swords might have come from these regions. In other cases where U.S. troops did use swords, a number of them were captured as well.

Thanks for answering Jeff and especially for sharing the photos of this sword.

All the very best,
Jim