Naga keris - original?

A. G. Maisey · 26th June 2009, 04:19 AM

Yes Pak Ganja, typical of its type, but in no way similar to the pamor in the keris that has been under discussion.

I'm out of this discussion for the next 2 or 3 days. Personal committments.

Jean · 26th June 2009, 09:14 AM

Hello gentlemen,
I am a new member to this forum altough I have followed your discussions with a strong interest for several years. I decided to join especially because I was the previous owner of this kris before it fled to the NL... For those of you who have my book, you can see it on picture 28E.
I bought it on Ebay few years ago from an American seller who did not know anything about it but it was said to be part of an estate collection if I remember well.... The sheath is in jurigan madurese style and is semi old although the silver attachements may be recently made. The blade fits perfectly into the slot, which was not recently cut if I remember well. The original hilt was in rare bajing loncat style and also semi-old or old, and this was the priority incentive for me for buying the kris.
I had obviously the same questions as yourselves about the age of the blade, I sent the picture to at least one Indonesian expert but he was not too sure about it but inclined to think that it is old. I lived in Indonesia and saw thousands of kris blades but not a single one which I could remember as having a similar pamor as this one (roughly applied and very shiny but different from the usual tourist krisses). Accordingly I would personally concur with Alan to believe that this is probably a village-quality blade made in Madura about 50 years ago.
Best regards
Jean

David · 26th June 2009, 03:20 PM

Hi Jean. Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum.

Please forgive me, but i am afraid that i do not recognize your identity just from your first name. What book on keris did you write?

tunggulametung · 26th June 2009, 05:47 PM

Hello,

Just wanted to add to the discussion that from own experience I've seen some what I believe older pieces/have some age with similar pamor work coming from Madura, the blade shape as well. The other good example of pamor and other blade workmanship attributed to Madura (sometimes also East Java) is on photo 28A on Jean's book.

Can't say that the naga is later addition or not but I think it is a rare occasions for people adding a naga later. If the price of a keris with naga is a question, it might be cheaper to buy a complete keris with naga (say of the equal quality) then to commision a naga carving to a 'normal/standard' gandik.

Hello Jean, welcome to the forum...

Thanks.

Jean · 26th June 2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Hello,

Can't say that the naga is later addition or not but I think it is a rare occasions for people adding a naga later.

Hello Jean, welcome to the forum...

Hello Chandra,

Thank you for the welcome and I would agree that the naga was not added later on this blade as there is no trace of welding or any discontinuity in the pamor.
Best regards
Jean

Jean · 26th June 2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Hi Jean. Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum.

What book on keris did you write?

Hi David,

Thank you for the welcome and congratulations for your work and also to all the members of the forum! The title of my book is "The Kris, a passion from Indonesia", I self-published it in January 2008 and Alam Shah made a review at that time.
Best regards
Jean

David · 26th June 2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi David,

Thank you for the welcome and congratulations for your work and also to all the members of the forum! The title of my book is "The Kris, a passion from Indonesia", I self-published it in January 2008 and Alam Shah made a review at that time.
Best regards
Jean

Thanks Jean. I did a google search for "keris book jean" and found this info out and of course i do remember when this book had it's release. Sorry to say that i do not own it yet, but it looks interesting.

Gustav · 26th June 2009, 08:42 PM

Dear Sirs,

here comes the second new member. I discovered this forum about a half of year ago, and have read the posts with greatest interest every day.

Please, be patient with my very limited English and stupid questions, I am an absolute newcomer in the world of Keris.

Thank You very much!

Regarding this Naga keris - is the Ganja really separate? The same question I have regarding the Keris from the thread "Eastern Java keris/Pamor Bendo Segodo??" from 17th June.

Rick · 27th June 2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Dear Sirs,

here comes the second new member. I discovered this forum about a half of year ago, and have read the posts with greatest interest every day.

Please, be patient with my very limited English and stupid questions, I am an absolute newcomer in the world of Keris.

Thank You very much!

Regarding this Naga keris - is the Ganja really separate? The same question I have regarding the Keris from the thread "Eastern Java keris/Pamor Bendo Segodo??" from 17th June.

Welcome to the forums Gustav !

There are no stupid questions here .

We do prohibit making appraisals or discussing pieces currently on ebay or other sales venues .

That's about it .

Enjoy and again, welcome !

Sajen · 26th June 2009, 08:43 PM

Welcome to the forum Jean. I have your book and understand that you buy this keris because the sheat and handle. I also like the jurigan style wrangkas. And when you see the complete keris in the book and the blade fits perfect inside the sheat it will be like Mr. Maisey write before, it isn't a recent keris. I also have handled keris in this form before.
sajen

Marcokeris · 27th June 2009, 06:47 AM

Welcome to the forum Jean. Are you in Indonesia now?

Jean · 27th June 2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Thanks Jean. I did a google search for "keris book jean" and found this info out and of course i do remember when this book had it's release. Sorry to say that i do not own it yet, but it looks interesting.

Hi David,

Actually the book is no longer available in English version (I printed 120 copies only) except may be with Erik Farrow but at a quite high price...
As pointed-out by Alam Shah, the expert collectors may not learn much from it except to see various and classified specimens of krisses, hilts, and daggers, I wrote it mostly for the kris beginners and it was quite successful in the NL especially.
Best regards
Jean

David · 27th June 2009, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi David,

Actually the book is no longer available in English version (I printed 120 copies only) except may be with Erik Farrow but at a quite high price...
As pointed-out by Alam Shah, the expert collectors may not learn much from it except to see various and classified specimens of krisses, hilts, and daggers, I wrote it mostly for the kris beginners and it was quite successful in the NL especially.
Best regards
Jean

Thanks Jean. I noticed that Erik has a few English copies left. Anyway, i just like to look at the pictures.

26th June 2009, 09:14 AM	#2
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Naga keris - original? Hello gentlemen, I am a new member to this forum altough I have followed your discussions with a strong interest for several years. I decided to join especially because I was the previous owner of this kris before it fled to the NL... For those of you who have my book, you can see it on picture 28E. I bought it on Ebay few years ago from an American seller who did not know anything about it but it was said to be part of an estate collection if I remember well.... The sheath is in jurigan madurese style and is semi old although the silver attachements may be recently made. The blade fits perfectly into the slot, which was not recently cut if I remember well. The original hilt was in rare bajing loncat style and also semi-old or old, and this was the priority incentive for me for buying the kris. I had obviously the same questions as yourselves about the age of the blade, I sent the picture to at least one Indonesian expert but he was not too sure about it but inclined to think that it is old. I lived in Indonesia and saw thousands of kris blades but not a single one which I could remember as having a similar pamor as this one (roughly applied and very shiny but different from the usual tourist krisses). Accordingly I would personally concur with Alan to believe that this is probably a village-quality blade made in Madura about 50 years ago. Best regards Jean

26th June 2009, 04:19 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes Pak Ganja, typical of its type, but in no way similar to the pamor in the keris that has been under discussion. I'm out of this discussion for the next 2 or 3 days. Personal committments.

26th June 2009, 03:20 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Hi Jean. Thanks for your input and welcome to the forum. Please forgive me, but i am afraid that i do not recognize your identity just from your first name. What book on keris did you write?

26th June 2009, 05:47 PM	#4
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Hello, Just wanted to add to the discussion that from own experience I've seen some what I believe older pieces/have some age with similar pamor work coming from Madura, the blade shape as well. The other good example of pamor and other blade workmanship attributed to Madura (sometimes also East Java) is on photo 28A on Jean's book. Can't say that the naga is later addition or not but I think it is a rare occasions for people adding a naga later. If the price of a keris with naga is a question, it might be cheaper to buy a complete keris with naga (say of the equal quality) then to commision a naga carving to a 'normal/standard' gandik. Hello Jean, welcome to the forum... Thanks.

26th June 2009, 08:42 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Dear Sirs, here comes the second new member. I discovered this forum about a half of year ago, and have read the posts with greatest interest every day. Please, be patient with my very limited English and stupid questions, I am an absolute newcomer in the world of Keris. Thank You very much! Regarding this Naga keris - is the Ganja really separate? The same question I have regarding the Keris from the thread "Eastern Java keris/Pamor Bendo Segodo??" from 17th June.

26th June 2009, 08:43 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	Welcome to the forum Jean. I have your book and understand that you buy this keris because the sheat and handle. I also like the jurigan style wrangkas. And when you see the complete keris in the book and the blade fits perfect inside the sheat it will be like Mr. Maisey write before, it isn't a recent keris. I also have handled keris in this form before. sajen

27th June 2009, 06:47 AM	#11
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Welcome to the forum Jean. Are you in Indonesia now?