What is Wesi Malelo?

Greybeard · 17th June 2009, 05:35 AM

Many thanks for the picture, Ganjawulung! The stones look interesting.

Regards, Heinz

ganjawulung · 19th June 2009, 03:07 AM

Ok Dear Heinz,

I tried quite a couple of times to portrait the "glittering" or "sparkling" effect of the blade that you probably meant to. But I don't think I can show you the good photo of it.

These two blades -- one (supposed to be) Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula, and one keris of dhapur "gumbeng" (quite similar to "kebo lajer" but not to thick) -- also supposed to be a Pajajaran gumbeng, with "sparkling" or "crystaline" grains in the blade...

GANJAWULUNG

Greybeard · 19th June 2009, 07:31 AM

Dear Ganjawulung

Thank you very much for taking the time and making the effort to portray wesi malelo. It`s difficult to describe the "glittering/sparkling" effect by word and it`s not easy to illustrate this by photos as well. One must have seen it on the object in hand! But the pictures you posted are very informative to me, and they are much appreciated!

Wesi malelo is a fascinating but rather confusing matter, and much of the knowledge of it seems to be lost in the past ...

You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?).

Best regards,

Heinz

ganjawulung · 21st June 2009, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

...You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?).

Dear Heinz,
Cirebon era was 15th century to 16th century. The first keraton was named as Pakungwati Nagara -- built by Rakean Walang Sungsang son of Pajajaran King, Siliwangi in 1452.

It was then the first Islamic kingdom in Java (Walang Sungsang then became Pangeran Cakrabuana, the first king of Pakungwati Cirebon), and it had good relation with Demak Sultanate -- then Islamic kingdom too. Cirebon and Demak had fought openly with the fading Majapahit kingdom in 1489. Trowulan, the capital of Majapahit was occupied by this coalition of powers.

In the meantime, Cirebon also fought with their parent's kingdom of Pajajaran. To strengthen the power, Pajajaran kingdom cooperated with foreign power, Purtuguese which harboured in Malacca. Hindhu Pajajaran kingdom then made a coalition treaty with Portuguese in 1522 (Batutulis Treaty, 1522) to fight the growing Islamic kingdoms in the north-coastal area of Jawa... But Pajajaran was vanished by the Islamic powers from the coastal kingdom in Jawa.

GANJAWULUNG

A. G. Maisey · 21st June 2009, 05:58 AM

Pak Ganja, I wonder if you could clarify something for me.

You advise that Cirebon was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa.

Can you quote your reference for this information?

Prof. Dr. Slamet Muljana seems to think that Demak was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa,and that the Islamic Kingdom Cirebon was established with the assistance of forces from Demak. In fact, prior to reading your post, my readings of other sources all seemed to confirm this.Agreed that Cirebon did exist prior to the establishment of an Islamic Kingdom at that place, and agreed that Islam had a presence in the area of Cirebon prior to the kingdom being established. However, first sultan of Cirebon was Sunan Gunung Jati who died in 1570.

Raden Patah was responsible for the construction of the Mesjid Agung Demak, and according to the chronogram at Lawang Bledheg, that mosque already existed in 1466.

Your advice that Cirebon preceded Demak as an Islamic kingdom is quite surprising. Is this new information due to recent discoveries of which I am unaware?

Your references would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

David · 21st June 2009, 04:30 PM

I do not wish to derail this historical discussion on Cirebon, which i find quite interesting, but if i redirect to the original question and look back on this thread i think it is still a bit confusing as to exactly what wesi malela is. It means black iron, but iron is often black when a blade is properly stained. What differentiates wesi malela from other iron? Is it merely the ore source? Rick has shown an example of an all black iron blade with no pamor which i have often heard referred to as kelangan, but from the the othetr photos shown can i assume that a wesi malela blade can also have a nickel pamor?

A. G. Maisey · 21st June 2009, 11:02 PM

David, in post #2 I gave the only answer that has any relevance in a discussion where actual physical examples are not present:- besi melela is black iron.

However , if we wish to extend this explanation, an extension that will not add one iota to the understanding or identification of besi melela --- try this for size:-

in Old Javanese "malela" was a word for iron, a noun, not an adjective.

it probably derived from the word "malyala", which was a kingdom in South india, and the name of the people of that kingdom; "malyala" was also a word for iron.

in Modern Javanese "malela" means simply "black iron"

within the Javanese keris community "malela" means various types of black iron, however, as with most things to do with the keris in Jawa there is a remarkable lack of consistency in identification of exactly what characteristics apply to the specific types of besi malela

in some of the old keris texts from Jawa, texts that do not go any further back than the 19th century, so they are not really what you could call "old", the word "malela" is used as a part of the name of various types of iron, so we have from these sources:-

besi malela ruyun, besi malela gendhaga ( or kendaga), besi malela brama, besi malela cubung, besi malela gagak, besi malela kapuk, besi malela nila, besi malela senthe, besi malela toya.

it goes without saying that to get a credible concensus on exactly what these names represent in physical terms might be just a little difficult.

if you talk to five experts who supposedly have in depth knowledge of iron types, you'll get 7 or 8 answers on exactly what the specific characteristics of a specific type of besi malela are.

in this discussion group we are outside the traditional keris culture of Jawa; all we need to know, and indeed all we can possibly know in these circumstances is that besi (or wesi) malela (or melelo, melela) is a type of black iron.

It should be understood that in Javanese discussion it is considered to be refined if one can can talk for a very long time and say absolutely nothing of substance. This is how we identify a master of the language, and thus a master of the culture. This applies ten fold in keris discussion:- we say a lot, but convey very little of substance. All the multiplicity of names and words used in keris discussion have the purpose of allowing us to illustrate our erudition without actually saying anything with any depth of meaning.

Besi malela is black iron. That is more than sufficient.

17th June 2009, 05:35 AM	#1
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Many thanks for the picture, Ganjawulung! The stones look interesting. Regards, Heinz

19th June 2009, 03:07 AM	#2
ganjawulung Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: J a k a r t a Posts: 991	Sparkling? Ok Dear Heinz, I tried quite a couple of times to portrait the "glittering" or "sparkling" effect of the blade that you probably meant to. But I don't think I can show you the good photo of it. These two blades -- one (supposed to be) Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula, and one keris of dhapur "gumbeng" (quite similar to "kebo lajer" but not to thick) -- also supposed to be a Pajajaran gumbeng, with "sparkling" or "crystaline" grains in the blade... GANJAWULUNG Attached Images

19th June 2009, 07:31 AM	#3
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Dear Ganjawulung Thank you very much for taking the time and making the effort to portray wesi malelo. It`s difficult to describe the "glittering/sparkling" effect by word and it`s not easy to illustrate this by photos as well. One must have seen it on the object in hand! But the pictures you posted are very informative to me, and they are much appreciated! Wesi malelo is a fascinating but rather confusing matter, and much of the knowledge of it seems to be lost in the past ... You show a Pajajaran or Cirebon trisula. That`s interesting as my keris in question is attributed to Cirebon. What`s the period of tangguh Cirebon (16th century?). Best regards, Heinz

21st June 2009, 05:58 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	Pak Ganja, I wonder if you could clarify something for me. You advise that Cirebon was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa. Can you quote your reference for this information? Prof. Dr. Slamet Muljana seems to think that Demak was the first Islamic kingdom in Jawa,and that the Islamic Kingdom Cirebon was established with the assistance of forces from Demak. In fact, prior to reading your post, my readings of other sources all seemed to confirm this.Agreed that Cirebon did exist prior to the establishment of an Islamic Kingdom at that place, and agreed that Islam had a presence in the area of Cirebon prior to the kingdom being established. However, first sultan of Cirebon was Sunan Gunung Jati who died in 1570. Raden Patah was responsible for the construction of the Mesjid Agung Demak, and according to the chronogram at Lawang Bledheg, that mosque already existed in 1466. Your advice that Cirebon preceded Demak as an Islamic kingdom is quite surprising. Is this new information due to recent discoveries of which I am unaware? Your references would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

21st June 2009, 04:30 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,212	I do not wish to derail this historical discussion on Cirebon, which i find quite interesting, but if i redirect to the original question and look back on this thread i think it is still a bit confusing as to exactly what wesi malela is. It means black iron, but iron is often black when a blade is properly stained. What differentiates wesi malela from other iron? Is it merely the ore source? Rick has shown an example of an all black iron blade with no pamor which i have often heard referred to as kelangan, but from the the othetr photos shown can i assume that a wesi malela blade can also have a nickel pamor?

21st June 2009, 11:02 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	David, in post #2 I gave the only answer that has any relevance in a discussion where actual physical examples are not present:- besi melela is black iron. However , if we wish to extend this explanation, an extension that will not add one iota to the understanding or identification of besi melela --- try this for size:- in Old Javanese "malela" was a word for iron, a noun, not an adjective. it probably derived from the word "malyala", which was a kingdom in South india, and the name of the people of that kingdom; "malyala" was also a word for iron. in Modern Javanese "malela" means simply "black iron" within the Javanese keris community "malela" means various types of black iron, however, as with most things to do with the keris in Jawa there is a remarkable lack of consistency in identification of exactly what characteristics apply to the specific types of besi malela in some of the old keris texts from Jawa, texts that do not go any further back than the 19th century, so they are not really what you could call "old", the word "malela" is used as a part of the name of various types of iron, so we have from these sources:- besi malela ruyun, besi malela gendhaga ( or kendaga), besi malela brama, besi malela cubung, besi malela gagak, besi malela kapuk, besi malela nila, besi malela senthe, besi malela toya. it goes without saying that to get a credible concensus on exactly what these names represent in physical terms might be just a little difficult. if you talk to five experts who supposedly have in depth knowledge of iron types, you'll get 7 or 8 answers on exactly what the specific characteristics of a specific type of besi malela are. in this discussion group we are outside the traditional keris culture of Jawa; all we need to know, and indeed all we can possibly know in these circumstances is that besi (or wesi) malela (or melelo, melela) is a type of black iron. It should be understood that in Javanese discussion it is considered to be refined if one can can talk for a very long time and say absolutely nothing of substance. This is how we identify a master of the language, and thus a master of the culture. This applies ten fold in keris discussion:- we say a lot, but convey very little of substance. All the multiplicity of names and words used in keris discussion have the purpose of allowing us to illustrate our erudition without actually saying anything with any depth of meaning. Besi malela is black iron. That is more than sufficient.