Help requested on Islamic? inscriptions on a heavy axe

Lee · 15th June 2009, 01:43 PM

Hi Jeff, thanks for the additional insight into the scrollwork.

Seeing the axes 'live' gives much more of an impression that both axe heads are in very much the same state of preservation and condition and that they likely have shared a common history. I photographed the one I have under natural light on an ideal overcast day and the example in the museum was an oblique flash snapshot through glass that underwent quite a bit more fotofibbing in order to bring up the details. The nature and condition of the wooden hafts is also remarkably similar, except that the museum's example is much straighter, if I recall correctly.

The axe is in the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto on the 3rd floor Middle-East gallery, being held by an armoured figure, as shown below:

Lee · 15th June 2009, 01:58 PM

The labeling attributes the figure and components as 'Ottoman 15th - 16th century'.

The accession number for the axe is 924.55.44; if I interpret the pattern correctly this implies it was acquired in 1924. Unfortunately, in my excitement, I did not record the numbers of the other parts of this presumably composite assemblage. There was a mark on the chest armour which, I believe, was that associated with the old Ottoman arsenal at St. Irene in Istanbul...

Jeff Pringle · 16th June 2009, 08:19 AM

Of course, how could I have forgotten Constantinople? In the 1500s, the Ottomans were bumping up against both Europe and Persia in a big way. That axe wears its age well, you must be pleased to have found it already on your wall!

Here is a photo of a Persian axe from the 1700s, the carving has a similar composition & gestural quality but is executed (sorry

) with a bit more care…photo from James Allan’s “Persian Steel: Masterpieces of Iranian Art” (ISBN 1850437181), the pictorial volume of the Tanavoli collection.

Lee · 16th June 2009, 01:24 PM

To recap, my first impression when I saw the axe in the Royal Ontario Museum was pretty much "What?!? ... Really???" because I too had not even thought of an Ottoman origin, let alone any dating before the 19th century, this latter restriction having been based more upon condition than anything else.

Then very quickly I recalled an early Ottoman matchlock rifle barrel (collected for a bold Damascus pattern) and I realized that there was very similar wire inlay of about the same width and color decorating the muzzle (this is not specific, I have seen Moro pieces with similar inlay too).

Then, I had what many here may regard as a crazy thought, which I have not yet succeeded in confirming or discrediting. I have been reeling this out slowly hoping someone else would replicate this thinking, but if this happened I have not heard about it.

Question: Where else had I encountered something in a 19th century militaria-like condition that was actually centuries earlier?
Answer: European medieval swords that had been in the Alexandria arsenal and later moved to the Ottoman armory at St. Irene in Istanbul, many of which were cleaned up and given new local-style rough wooden handle scales in order to be mounted on large panoplies in fashion at that time (the late 19th century), of which some ultimately showed up in the antiques market when the Republic of Turkey needed to raise some hard currency in the 1920s.

Question: Explain why two very similarly decorated axes have very plain handles that show some decent age, but not nearly enough to match the museum's dating.
Suspicion: The handles are exactly what they seem - not original - and were installed in the late 19th century in order to display the axes. Indeed the grain of the wood on a St. Irene medieval sword grip scale shows quite a similarity with the grain of the axe handle. A number of pictures of these displays at St. Irene have survived and I have gone through several that have been published, and I did not recognize any battleaxes of this style. Where axes were hung, they did have hafts. Also, many swords known to have been in the displays are not in the available pictures.

Speculation: The ROM had the foresight to acquire four of the European medieval swords coming out of St. Irene from a London dealer in 1930 and the chest armour displayed with the axe bears what I believe is the St. Irene arsenal mark. So we know that the ROM was acquiring things originating from St. Irene at the time. The accession number of the ROM's axe suggests acquisition in 1924. A dealer named Robinson in London was selling these not only to museums but to private collectors. For the little that this detail is worth, I bought my axe in London.

Ongoing Investigation: Manolo has kindly consented to note the accession numbers of the chest piece, helmet, etc. when he next visits the museum and I still hope to receive a reply from my inquiry to the museum concerning the provenance of their axe.

Emanuel · 20th June 2009, 12:46 AM

Here are the accession numbers for the "Ottoman" suit of armour. It appears that the armour was acquired in 1913. The axe could in this case not fit the suit of armour and not date from the same period.

I will post the other pictures I took in the Royal Ontario Museum thread.

Best regards,
Emanuel

Lee · 14th August 2014, 08:34 PM

Another axehead from this group has come to light!

I remember also that Emanuel had followed up and sent me further information from the Royal Ontario Museum, but I just have not yet been able to find it in my archives...

Lee · 14th August 2014, 08:37 PM

More images and a side by side comparison

fernando · 27th April 2021, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

... There was a mark on the chest armour which, I believe, was that associated with the old Ottoman arsenal at St. Irene in Istanbul...

This one, Lee ?

.

Lee · 27th April 2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

This one, Lee ?

Yes, that's the one.

15th June 2009, 01:43 PM	#1
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Would you believe Ottoman? Hi Jeff, thanks for the additional insight into the scrollwork. Seeing the axes 'live' gives much more of an impression that both axe heads are in very much the same state of preservation and condition and that they likely have shared a common history. I photographed the one I have under natural light on an ideal overcast day and the example in the museum was an oblique flash snapshot through glass that underwent quite a bit more fotofibbing in order to bring up the details. The nature and condition of the wooden hafts is also remarkably similar, except that the museum's example is much straighter, if I recall correctly. The axe is in the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto on the 3rd floor Middle-East gallery, being held by an armoured figure, as shown below: Attached Images

15th June 2009, 01:58 PM	#2
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Yes, Ottoman. The labeling attributes the figure and components as 'Ottoman 15th - 16th century'. The accession number for the axe is 924.55.44; if I interpret the pattern correctly this implies it was acquired in 1924. Unfortunately, in my excitement, I did not record the numbers of the other parts of this presumably composite assemblage. There was a mark on the chest armour which, I believe, was that associated with the old Ottoman arsenal at St. Irene in Istanbul...

16th June 2009, 08:19 AM	#3
Jeff Pringle Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 189	Of course, how could I have forgotten Constantinople? In the 1500s, the Ottomans were bumping up against both Europe and Persia in a big way. That axe wears its age well, you must be pleased to have found it already on your wall! Here is a photo of a Persian axe from the 1700s, the carving has a similar composition & gestural quality but is executed (sorry ) with a bit more care…photo from James Allan’s “Persian Steel: Masterpieces of Iranian Art” (ISBN 1850437181), the pictorial volume of the Tanavoli collection. Attached Images

16th June 2009, 01:24 PM	#4
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Perhaps I am intoxicated with wishful thinking, but... To recap, my first impression when I saw the axe in the Royal Ontario Museum was pretty much "What?!? ... Really???" because I too had not even thought of an Ottoman origin, let alone any dating before the 19th century, this latter restriction having been based more upon condition than anything else. Then very quickly I recalled an early Ottoman matchlock rifle barrel (collected for a bold Damascus pattern) and I realized that there was very similar wire inlay of about the same width and color decorating the muzzle (this is not specific, I have seen Moro pieces with similar inlay too). Then, I had what many here may regard as a crazy thought, which I have not yet succeeded in confirming or discrediting. I have been reeling this out slowly hoping someone else would replicate this thinking, but if this happened I have not heard about it. Question: Where else had I encountered something in a 19th century militaria-like condition that was actually centuries earlier? Answer: European medieval swords that had been in the Alexandria arsenal and later moved to the Ottoman armory at St. Irene in Istanbul, many of which were cleaned up and given new local-style rough wooden handle scales in order to be mounted on large panoplies in fashion at that time (the late 19th century), of which some ultimately showed up in the antiques market when the Republic of Turkey needed to raise some hard currency in the 1920s. Question: Explain why two very similarly decorated axes have very plain handles that show some decent age, but not nearly enough to match the museum's dating. Suspicion: The handles are exactly what they seem - not original - and were installed in the late 19th century in order to display the axes. Indeed the grain of the wood on a St. Irene medieval sword grip scale shows quite a similarity with the grain of the axe handle. A number of pictures of these displays at St. Irene have survived and I have gone through several that have been published, and I did not recognize any battleaxes of this style. Where axes were hung, they did have hafts. Also, many swords known to have been in the displays are not in the available pictures. Speculation: The ROM had the foresight to acquire four of the European medieval swords coming out of St. Irene from a London dealer in 1930 and the chest armour displayed with the axe bears what I believe is the St. Irene arsenal mark. So we know that the ROM was acquiring things originating from St. Irene at the time. The accession number of the ROM's axe suggests acquisition in 1924. A dealer named Robinson in London was selling these not only to museums but to private collectors. For the little that this detail is worth, I bought my axe in London. Ongoing Investigation: Manolo has kindly consented to note the accession numbers of the chest piece, helmet, etc. when he next visits the museum and I still hope to receive a reply from my inquiry to the museum concerning the provenance of their axe.

20th June 2009, 12:46 AM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	As promised... Here are the accession numbers for the "Ottoman" suit of armour. It appears that the armour was acquired in 1913. The axe could in this case not fit the suit of armour and not date from the same period. I will post the other pictures I took in the Royal Ontario Museum thread. Best regards, Emanuel Attached Images

14th August 2014, 08:34 PM	#6
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	Another axehead of this group has come to light! Another axehead from this group has come to light! I remember also that Emanuel had followed up and sent me further information from the Royal Ontario Museum, but I just have not yet been able to find it in my archives... Attached Images

14th August 2014, 08:37 PM	#7
Lee EAAF Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Upstate New York, USA Posts: 932	More images and a side by side comparison More images and a side by side comparison Attached Images