Bombardier stilettos

celtan · 27th May 2009, 01:10 AM

It is most certainly an 17th-18thC. gunner's stiletto. A friend of mine has one. I never understood what the numbers meant: Bore?

How was it used? Was it stuck in the charge, to adjust it for reach by removing excess?

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by kisak

Hessink had one for sale a while ago: http://hessink.nl/Webalbum/thor/wapens/1396_frame.htm

There's also one on display in the Army Museum in Stockholm. I'm not sure if I forgot to take a picture of the museum's description, or if it might have been lacking altogether. Either way, I'm afraid I can't provide any information beyond the picture itself there. It's displayed in a manner suggesting it was a gunner's item though.

Jim McDougall · 27th May 2009, 04:34 AM

Thank you guys, I'm not sure what made me think of these, but I'm trying to find an article on them around here somewhere.
I cant figure the numbers either...it seems if to measure an amount of powder, the number near the hilt must represent a huge charge.

All the best,
Jim

broadaxe · 27th May 2009, 03:14 PM

Here is a nice one from Oriental-Arms, bought by a good friend of mine.
http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2314
We had this dagger replicated by a knifemaker, with interchanging blades (they were taken from fencing foils therefore have square cross section rather triangle one): one has a sharp point and the other has a safety button for training. Here is a photo, and another photo of a similar one from an old booklet in Italian, dealing exclusively with gunner's stiletto.

Rick · 27th May 2009, 04:06 PM

Blade possibly maked with bore sizes and shot weight for each bore ??

katana · 27th May 2009, 04:26 PM

Hi Jim

,
I believe that the 'gunners stiletto' was issued as a last ditch weapon in case the artillary positions were over-run. I also know that the markings on the blades had various meanings and were not necessailly 'standardised'.
and were often used to clear cannon-fuse touch holes.

Many were scribed with marks indicating levels of powder charges (think car engine dip stick)

Some were marked off with a scale for converting the bore of the gun into the weight of the shot required

Others also had scales to calculated trajectory angles

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...n/1884.24.216/

Regards David

broadaxe · 27th May 2009, 05:15 PM

The gunner's stiletto was used to measure bore & shot diameter in conjunction with a compass/dividers (rare version opens up to be a compass for itself). Powder charge was measured by sticking the blade into a known volume charge cup.

Interesting note, since the "regular" stiletto was often forbidden to carry by civilians, as being an assassin's weapon, the gunner's stiletts has been regarded as a legit tool of the trade. Some researchers suspect that a relatively large amount of marked blade stilettos exist to these days because this was an attempt to surpass the rule.

celtan · 27th May 2009, 07:07 PM

So...

Gunner Stilettos had different sets of markings? Perhaps even more than one type?

ie. One for the bore, another for the charge?

Were specific stilettos made for individual guns?

I say this, because same depth of a packed charge means different explosive loads with different diameter charges (calibers).

Same caliber shells required different loads according to the desired reach. I understand that sometimes the barrel was loaded with BP up to half its length, for maximun ability "to reach out and touch someone..."

Regarding the stiletto being used to clean vents, those vents would have needed to be rather large. The one my friend has wouldn't fit in the 17-18th C cannons we have preserved here...

Did vents increase in width according to the gun calibers and lenghts?

Best

Manuel Luis

27th May 2009, 03:14 PM	#3
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Here is a nice one from Oriental-Arms, bought by a good friend of mine. http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=2314 We had this dagger replicated by a knifemaker, with interchanging blades (they were taken from fencing foils therefore have square cross section rather triangle one): one has a sharp point and the other has a safety button for training. Here is a photo, and another photo of a similar one from an old booklet in Italian, dealing exclusively with gunner's stiletto. Attached Images

27th May 2009, 07:07 PM	#7
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	So... Gunner Stilettos had different sets of markings? Perhaps even more than one type? ie. One for the bore, another for the charge? Were specific stilettos made for individual guns? I say this, because same depth of a packed charge means different explosive loads with different diameter charges (calibers). Same caliber shells required different loads according to the desired reach. I understand that sometimes the barrel was loaded with BP up to half its length, for maximun ability "to reach out and touch someone..." Regarding the stiletto being used to clean vents, those vents would have needed to be rather large. The one my friend has wouldn't fit in the 17-18th C cannons we have preserved here... Did vents increase in width according to the gun calibers and lenghts? Best Manuel Luis Last edited by celtan; 27th May 2009 at 07:37 PM.

27th May 2009, 04:34 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,457	Thank you guys, I'm not sure what made me think of these, but I'm trying to find an article on them around here somewhere. I cant figure the numbers either...it seems if to measure an amount of powder, the number near the hilt must represent a huge charge. All the best, Jim

27th May 2009, 04:06 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Blade possibly maked with bore sizes and shot weight for each bore ??

27th May 2009, 04:26 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Jim , I believe that the 'gunners stiletto' was issued as a last ditch weapon in case the artillary positions were over-run. I also know that the markings on the blades had various meanings and were not necessailly 'standardised'. and were often used to clear cannon-fuse touch holes. Many were scribed with marks indicating levels of powder charges (think car engine dip stick) Some were marked off with a scale for converting the bore of the gun into the weight of the shot required Others also had scales to calculated trajectory angles http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...n/1884.24.216/ Regards David

27th May 2009, 05:15 PM	#6
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	The gunner's stiletto was used to measure bore & shot diameter in conjunction with a compass/dividers (rare version opens up to be a compass for itself). Powder charge was measured by sticking the blade into a known volume charge cup. Interesting note, since the "regular" stiletto was often forbidden to carry by civilians, as being an assassin's weapon, the gunner's stiletts has been regarded as a legit tool of the trade. Some researchers suspect that a relatively large amount of marked blade stilettos exist to these days because this was an attempt to surpass the rule.