Manchu markings on blades

Gavin Nugent · 22nd May 2009, 10:29 PM

G'day Jim,

I was surfing through the postings and I found this lonely and very interesting little thread.
From your description of this piece, it sounds very attractive, something I would be proud to own and display.
If Philip suggests it precludes military use that is good enough for most as there is not a lot he doesn't know about these arms.
I could substantiate this thought based on the common short Jian that are often found in tortoise shell.
Speaking to a learned Hong Kong collector some time ago, he explained that the tortoise shell jian that some people refer to as "tourist" were actually gifts to dignitaries in the mid 1800's, he also indicated that there are some found in SEA museums with this providence.
I too have shared images of a variant in tortoise shell and silver with you some time back, not something you'd ever see in military units.
I would think it is safe to say it was most likely a civilian/private piece, quite possibly a gift of a high standard to a worthy individual.
I'm afraid I cannot be of much more use that that. I know there are others out there who may have an idea too.
I'd love to see an image of some sort should you have one you could scan; a picture as you know tells a whole new story on its own.

Regards

Gav

Jim McDougall · 23rd May 2009, 06:41 AM

Hi Gav, and thank you for noticing my little soliloquy here!!
I really appreciate the response, and the information on the tortoise shell material is most interesting. You're absolutely right...not much escapes Philip on these weapons, and when information comes from him I consider it pretty much the final word on the topic.

I think your note on presentation items to dignitaries is very well placed, especially as it seems there was a great deal of diplomatic activity in China from the time of the Qianlong emperor and preceding the turmoil of the 19th century.

Fascinating history!~!

All the best,
Jim

22nd May 2009, 10:29 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Lonely G'day Jim, I was surfing through the postings and I found this lonely and very interesting little thread. From your description of this piece, it sounds very attractive, something I would be proud to own and display. If Philip suggests it precludes military use that is good enough for most as there is not a lot he doesn't know about these arms. I could substantiate this thought based on the common short Jian that are often found in tortoise shell. Speaking to a learned Hong Kong collector some time ago, he explained that the tortoise shell jian that some people refer to as "tourist" were actually gifts to dignitaries in the mid 1800's, he also indicated that there are some found in SEA museums with this providence. I too have shared images of a variant in tortoise shell and silver with you some time back, not something you'd ever see in military units. I would think it is safe to say it was most likely a civilian/private piece, quite possibly a gift of a high standard to a worthy individual. I'm afraid I cannot be of much more use that that. I know there are others out there who may have an idea too. I'd love to see an image of some sort should you have one you could scan; a picture as you know tells a whole new story on its own. Regards Gav

23rd May 2009, 06:41 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,336	Hi Gav, and thank you for noticing my little soliloquy here!! I really appreciate the response, and the information on the tortoise shell material is most interesting. You're absolutely right...not much escapes Philip on these weapons, and when information comes from him I consider it pretty much the final word on the topic. I think your note on presentation items to dignitaries is very well placed, especially as it seems there was a great deal of diplomatic activity in China from the time of the Qianlong emperor and preceding the turmoil of the 19th century. Fascinating history!~! All the best, Jim