Help with blade of possible european Make

Ronin 47 · 16th May 2009, 02:53 AM

Ok first I thought I was seeing things but then I took the blade over to a friends house who has some wootz blades, and we both saw what appears to be a grainy structure in the blade which looks like wootz, we compared it to other wootz examples in similiar condition and there appears to be some similarities overall with the grain structure. I'm posting some (not to great) pictures and was just wondering what other board members thought, and if it might be worth going at the blade with some Japanese figure stones to try and bring up the pattern if there really is one, or should I just leave it as is?

TVV · 16th May 2009, 03:10 AM

I do not see anything, but wootz is very difficult to photograph, so anything is possible, even if very unlikely.
Regards,
Teodor

ward · 16th May 2009, 03:16 AM

Looks like a Euro trade blade to me, probably 18th century.
If you etch it you might get a little layering but not wootz.
Myself, I'd leave it as it is, looks like it has original finish on it.
Just hit it with some fine steel wool to get the gunk off

Ronin 47 · 18th May 2009, 01:06 AM

After looking at it further I think there is grain, but most likely not wootz, so I will just leave best alone. Anyway this sword looks a lot like the South German Landsknegt Broadsword, circa 1530, that's coming up for auction at Hessink's if you broke or filed the tip down, its probably not that old but its still interesting.

Thanks again for all the help

Austin R.

katana · 18th May 2009, 11:26 PM

Could this be a re-hilted Kaskara ? Geographically Oman and the eastern coast of Africa are linked by sea trade, its not too unreasonable to think a blade may have travelled via sea ports.

Regards David

Ronin 47 · 19th May 2009, 11:37 PM

I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim McDougall · 20th May 2009, 04:39 PM

[QUOTE=Ronin 47]I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.[/QUOTE

Hi Austin,
Actually, if you like the sword, and since you have already acquired it, it really doesnt matter what you payed. If you were selling the sword there may be obvious concern. Since you have noted you know little on Arabian swords, your purchase of this one, as well as your desire to learn more on it indicates you clearly developing an interest in them. This is a good thing, as by sharing your weapon here we all benefit by learning more on them.

Obviously the matter of price is a matter of extremely subjective opinion, and without going through professionals, you may expect a wide array of answers.
Thank you for observing our protocol concerning valuations by specifying PM use on this.

I will say, in my opinion, this seems a relatively unusual Bedouin sa'if with what appears, as Ward has assessed, a European blade of probably 18th century, with 19th century mounts.

All best regards,
Jim

16th May 2009, 02:53 AM	#1
Ronin 47 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 16	Ok first I thought I was seeing things but then I took the blade over to a friends house who has some wootz blades, and we both saw what appears to be a grainy structure in the blade which looks like wootz, we compared it to other wootz examples in similiar condition and there appears to be some similarities overall with the grain structure. I'm posting some (not to great) pictures and was just wondering what other board members thought, and if it might be worth going at the blade with some Japanese figure stones to try and bring up the pattern if there really is one, or should I just leave it as is? Attached Images

19th May 2009, 11:37 PM	#6
Ronin 47 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 16	I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help. Last edited by Ronin 47; 19th May 2009 at 11:50 PM.

16th May 2009, 03:10 AM	#2
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	I do not see anything, but wootz is very difficult to photograph, so anything is possible, even if very unlikely. Regards, Teodor

16th May 2009, 03:16 AM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Looks like a Euro trade blade to me, probably 18th century. If you etch it you might get a little layering but not wootz. Myself, I'd leave it as it is, looks like it has original finish on it. Just hit it with some fine steel wool to get the gunk off

18th May 2009, 01:06 AM	#4
Ronin 47 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 16	After looking at it further I think there is grain, but most likely not wootz, so I will just leave best alone. Anyway this sword looks a lot like the South German Landsknegt Broadsword, circa 1530, that's coming up for auction at Hessink's if you broke or filed the tip down, its probably not that old but its still interesting. Thanks again for all the help Austin R.

18th May 2009, 11:26 PM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Could this be a re-hilted Kaskara ? Geographically Oman and the eastern coast of Africa are linked by sea trade, its not too unreasonable to think a blade may have travelled via sea ports. Regards David

20th May 2009, 04:39 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	[QUOTE=Ronin 47]I hate to do this but Arabian weaponry much less any weaponry from that part of the world is not really my area of expertise, and I would appreciate it if someone could please PM a rough going price for these Arabian sa'if's with European trade blades. This is not for resale purposes but I think I overpayed and I would like to know by how much, I have been looking through past auction house records but I can't seem to find a similiar example to go on. Thanks in advance for any help.[/QUOTE Hi Austin, Actually, if you like the sword, and since you have already acquired it, it really doesnt matter what you payed. If you were selling the sword there may be obvious concern. Since you have noted you know little on Arabian swords, your purchase of this one, as well as your desire to learn more on it indicates you clearly developing an interest in them. This is a good thing, as by sharing your weapon here we all benefit by learning more on them. Obviously the matter of price is a matter of extremely subjective opinion, and without going through professionals, you may expect a wide array of answers. Thank you for observing our protocol concerning valuations by specifying PM use on this. I will say, in my opinion, this seems a relatively unusual Bedouin sa'if with what appears, as Ward has assessed, a European blade of probably 18th century, with 19th century mounts. All best regards, Jim