Origin of the Jawa Demam hilt form

[erikscollectables]

Originally Posted by jonng

Dear Eric,

The hilt you just posted look like a newly carved one. Is it new?

B/rgds,
jonathan

As far as I know it is from the 1950s and brought from Sumatra to the Netherlands in that period.

So not new but quite recent.

It is very well carved (in horn) that is why I kept it despite the relative young age it has. It is th eodd one out in my collection but i like it nevertheless

Regards, Erik

[erikscollectables]

Here another example of a cross over.
A figural hilt with crossed arms like the the Jawa Demam but also with Fanks like an ogre/demon.

Would this qualify as a Jawa Demam?

It is a nice old ivory example.

Regards, Erik

[David]

Erik, i can't answer you question, but i did want to say that you seem to have a wonderful collection of figural hilts.
A old hilt like this, with the ogre-like qualities such as fangs and the crossed over arm posture of the Jawa Demam is indeed very interesting. What i am most curious about is if there is a specific meaning to this crossed over arm posture. Does it have a specific cultural significance? Likewise does the hands on knees posture also have cultural significance? Are the meanings here different or doesn't it matter?

[erikscollectables]

Originally Posted by David

Erik, i can't answer you question, but i did want to say that you seem to have a wonderful collection of figural hilts.
A old hilt like this, with the ogre-like qualities such as fangs and the crossed over arm posture of the Jawa Demam is indeed very interesting. What i am most curious about is if there is a specific meaning to this crossed over arm posture. Does it have a specific cultural significance? Likewise does the hands on knees posture also have cultural significance? Are the meanings here different or doesn't it matter?

Thanks, in fact the collection is quite small but I do try to improve the quality of the collection continuously and I try to learn from the items I have as much as I can.

I am interested in the same question as you are.
In fact I have four hilts that are almost the same and have lot of characteristics that they all have. This must be the same character (the one I used to call Raksasa in being the flesh eating demon).
It has the hand position you mention.

I will try to make an overview of the characteristics.
If anaybody can positively identify this character that would be very nice!

I'll post it as a seperate thread.

Regards, Erik

[erikscollectables]

Hi David,

I just did what I should have done immediately.
I reread the krisdisk and it has a lot of the answers.
Regarding my earlier question regarding the cross over type:
if you have the disk chapter 4 on Cirebon read page 10.

Regards, Erik

[BluErf]

Just to share, Adni has 3 hilts in his inventory, which came in at different times, of the same rashaksa form with arms crossed-over like the jawa demam. The hilts were probably made in the earlier part of the 20th century as well. The keris hilts are probably still evolving as we speak.

[drdavid]

If I might refer back to something you mentioned Alan

I can see more than just two sources for keris hilt origin. There are the giants, the ogres, the spirits, the demons, the deities, the wayang characters, and perhaps even the ancestors. Then there are the purely vegetable forms and purely animal and bird forms. There are also the rarest of the rare:- the naturally occurring forms that are adapted for use as keris hilts. There are many sources for keris hilt motifs.

What do you mean by the naturally occurring hilt forms that are adapted for use as a keris hilt? Do you have any examples that you could show?

If the moderators feel it would be better that this be a separate question please split this topic off

drdavid