snake or frigate bird

fearn · 12th May 2009, 06:53 PM

Just to get this conversation going in an extremely biological direction, I'd like to note that the cobra family (elapidae) is extremely common in the Australasian region, and includes such fun snakes as death adders and taipans.

Some of them look like cobras, some do not. Bottom line is that the elapids are widespread through Africa, Asia, Australia, and the central islands of Melanesia, so a cobra-like mark on a snake cane doesn't preclude it from coming from Melanesia.

My 0.00002 kina,

F

David · 12th May 2009, 07:54 PM

Tim, i think it is clear to see that regardless of what the eyes are made of or the origin of this staff, it isn't really possible that it is "rubbish". It's a fine folk art staff no matter how you look at it.
I also think that with folk art we can't get too fussy over anatomical correctness. Part of what makes it folk art. I think that in all probability it was intended to be a snake, but nailing it down to the exact species from the carved features is not very likely. No real snake looks like this.

Tim Simmons · 13th May 2009, 01:59 PM

Its here but I do not know what to make of it. I fear it is a tourist thing. Thats three duds in a row

I just keep the Fiji staff in mind and keep trying.

David · 13th May 2009, 10:00 PM

Tim, what about this staff gives you the feeling that it is a tourist thing? Looks like good folk art to me. what were you expecting or hoping for that isn't there when the staff is in hand?

Tim Simmons · 14th May 2009, 06:33 PM

David thank you for your encouraging words, perhaps tourist may have been a bit harsh and hasty. "Tribal" for want of a better word, culture, art production and materials are not preserved in aspic. However there could be a fine line between "folk art" and "Tourist". Looking again at the copper base to the staff and how carefully it has been set into the wood I might be prepared to think there is pride in the manufacture. The plastic eyes may have been thought as rather cool by the maker. The ? mark looks like a stain and quite lightly applied. The actual wood is a natual twisty root or vine strong but bendy. There is minimal shaping to the twist. Perhaps "fern" might suggest possible names and origin. The wood is pale in colour the dark colour you see in the pictures is from a lacquer. I cannot tell if it is a natural one or industrially produced. I can say that for the money it is starting to grow on me. I have a large Thai darb knife put together with salvaged aluminium and chewing gum or an epoxy resin. Just because you are poor in the 20th century does not mean artists stop making artifacts for cultural use? Anyway here are some more pictures. I could still think it not Indian?

fearn · 14th May 2009, 08:21 PM

Hi Tim,

Got me. I'm guessing some sort of tropical liana, possibly including a rattan or a grape vine, for the major part of the cane. It's definitely not a root. As for the wood at the bottom, I haven't a clue. If that purple color is natural, that would limit the choices a bit, not that I know what they are off-hand.

David · 14th May 2009, 09:19 PM

Tim, are you sure the eyes are plastic? Looks like some sort of stone to me.

This type of staff could have been made anywhere. Snake have cultural significance all over the world. I see no specific cultural indicators here. But i do like the staff.

14th May 2009, 06:33 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	David thank you for your encouraging words, perhaps tourist may have been a bit harsh and hasty. "Tribal" for want of a better word, culture, art production and materials are not preserved in aspic. However there could be a fine line between "folk art" and "Tourist". Looking again at the copper base to the staff and how carefully it has been set into the wood I might be prepared to think there is pride in the manufacture. The plastic eyes may have been thought as rather cool by the maker. The ? mark looks like a stain and quite lightly applied. The actual wood is a natual twisty root or vine strong but bendy. There is minimal shaping to the twist. Perhaps "fern" might suggest possible names and origin. The wood is pale in colour the dark colour you see in the pictures is from a lacquer. I cannot tell if it is a natural one or industrially produced. I can say that for the money it is starting to grow on me. I have a large Thai darb knife put together with salvaged aluminium and chewing gum or an epoxy resin. Just because you are poor in the 20th century does not mean artists stop making artifacts for cultural use? Anyway here are some more pictures. I could still think it not Indian? Attached Images

12th May 2009, 06:53 PM	#1
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Just to get this conversation going in an extremely biological direction, I'd like to note that the cobra family (elapidae) is extremely common in the Australasian region, and includes such fun snakes as death adders and taipans. Some of them look like cobras, some do not. Bottom line is that the elapids are widespread through Africa, Asia, Australia, and the central islands of Melanesia, so a cobra-like mark on a snake cane doesn't preclude it from coming from Melanesia. My 0.00002 kina, F

12th May 2009, 07:54 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Tim, i think it is clear to see that regardless of what the eyes are made of or the origin of this staff, it isn't really possible that it is "rubbish". It's a fine folk art staff no matter how you look at it. I also think that with folk art we can't get too fussy over anatomical correctness. Part of what makes it folk art. I think that in all probability it was intended to be a snake, but nailing it down to the exact species from the carved features is not very likely. No real snake looks like this.

13th May 2009, 01:59 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Its here but I do not know what to make of it. I fear it is a tourist thing. Thats three duds in a row I just keep the Fiji staff in mind and keep trying.

13th May 2009, 10:00 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Tim, what about this staff gives you the feeling that it is a tourist thing? Looks like good folk art to me. what were you expecting or hoping for that isn't there when the staff is in hand?

14th May 2009, 08:21 PM	#6
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Tim, Got me. I'm guessing some sort of tropical liana, possibly including a rattan or a grape vine, for the major part of the cane. It's definitely not a root. As for the wood at the bottom, I haven't a clue. If that purple color is natural, that would limit the choices a bit, not that I know what they are off-hand.

14th May 2009, 09:19 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Tim, are you sure the eyes are plastic? Looks like some sort of stone to me. This type of staff could have been made anywhere. Snake have cultural significance all over the world. I see no specific cultural indicators here. But i do like the staff.