Of bolo rush & bolomen

[Nonoy Tan]

Just out of curiosity (I hope I'm not off-topic), are the majority of non-tourist Talibon made after the fall of the Spanish rule in PI?

I suspect that there was hardly any so called "tourist" blades during the period of Spanish “rule” - because the tourist market and the "tourism industry" was not yet developed. Furthermore, almost every Filipino household probably owned a bladed weapon - pointed or not. And even if a pointed weapon was outlawed, it did not stop anybody (including the lowlanders paying tribute to the colonial government) from owning and keeping one at home (i.e. not brought out in public).

Thus, the likely answer to your question is "No".

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks guys, just a young novice gettin' his learn on

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Thanks guys, just a young novice gettin' his learn on

Thanks for your interest in this topic!

OT: By the way, your avatar is really cool. Would you mind sharing to us what the character means?

[KuKulzA28]

WOW! I did not know about the Talibon/garab sundang, that's very cool...
It's interesting when people, even historians and martial artists, make blanket statements like "Talibon were only weapons" or "all Filipino weaponry had a duality of purpose - war and work" or "weapons are an extension of the hand" or "all bladed techniques can have hand and stick techniques derived from them"etc.etc. From life-experience it seems thing aren't always so clear-cut

________________________________________OFF TOPIC___________________________________________

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

Thanks for your interest in this topic!

OT: By the way, your avatar is really cool. Would you mind sharing to us what the character means?

That's my family-name: Tseng, I am what's known as Huh-lwo, Hoklo, or Hokkien. I have the Chinese character and Aboriginal symbols to show my mixed ancestry. I'm Taiwanese American. Many of the Chinese in Indonesia, Philippines, SE Asia, India, etc. were from Hoklo traders/pirates/settlers/coolies. More than 80% of the Taiwanese Hoklos are estimated to have some amount of aboriginal blood. A Taiwanese Aborigine blade is resting on a skull - we can assume a headhunted skull . The diamond pattern is from the popular Paiwan/Puyuma/Ruaki motifs of the bai-bu-shuh or hundred paces snake.

I have a huge interest in Southern China, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, India, Congo, and Latin America - cultures, history, canoes, climate, weapinry, martial arts, women, food - you name it.

----what does yours mean?

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

----what does yours mean?

Miguels is Alibata/Baybayin script. It is old writing from the Philippines that is pre-Spanish. The first book ever published by the Spanish in the Philippines(Doctrina Cristiana in 1593, or Christian Doctrine) was written in Alibata in order to convert the natives. The writing in Miguels avatar looks to be the "La" character...both together I am guessing would be "Lala"...not sure what that means though, maybe his Filipino pet name. hehe Some Filipinos still signed their names in Alibata up until the mid-19th century...so it is not as if it all disappeared when the Spanish took over. The Katipunan also placed the "Ka" alibata symbol in the middle of some of their flags...not to represent "Katipunan" but for "Kalayaan"(independence). Today there are some tribes and places that still use that writing to communicate(Mindoro and Palawan being the two most recognized places). Many Filipinos now are understanding its importance and are embracing it...myself included.
Sorry Miguel, thought I'd help myself to your question.

[Lew]

I found an old news reel from 1943 it shows Philippine troops being armed with bolos. It's about 5 minutes into the video.

http://ahivfree.alexanderstreet.com/View/526281

[carlos]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I found an old news reel from 1943 it shows Philippine troops being armed with bolos. It's about 5 minutes into the video.

http://ahivfree.alexanderstreet.com/View/526281

Could somebody put a picture of one bolo like the video? thanks
carlos

[KuKulzA28]

Thanks Dimasalang!

@ LOUIEBLADES:
Oh wow, that's wicked cool, I like how the text follows the video clip...
Interesting how the Filipino soldiers were issued bolos by the US Army...

I bet they would've brought bolos even if they weren't issued them

This reminds me of Crossing the Sulu Seas where an old man relates of how he remembers Moro krismen ambushing Japanese forces. It seems a common theme with the Filipinos, Moros, Gorkhas, Chinese, Taiwanese, etc. to use a big native blade since guns and ammo were low.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by LOUIEBLADES

I found an old news reel from 1943 it shows Philippine troops being armed with bolos. It's about 5 minutes into the video. http://ahivfree.alexanderstreet.com/View/526281

Thanks Lew for the link! That's a very cool find

For quick reference, the narration went:

Narrator: A regiment of Filipino infantry in the United States army receives the one weapon they know best, the Philippine bolo knife. Used in cutting through jungles, the bolo is equally effective in hand-to-hand combat. Filipinos, young and old, have a long and outstanding score to (inaudible ) with the Japanese invaders of their native land. Today, armed with native weapons, augmenting their modern equipment, they are eager to meet the enemy.

Below are some stills from the video.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Dimasalang

Miguels is Alibata/Baybayin script. It is old writing from the Philippines that is pre-Spanish ... Sorry Miguel, thought I'd help myself to your question.

Dimasalang, maraming salamat po [many thanks]!

Yes indeed, alibata is still very much alive. And per my earlier post we can even see alibata characters in some old Phil. swords ...

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

It's interesting when people, even historians and martial artists, make blanket statements like "Talibon were only weapons" or "all Filipino weaponry had a duality of purpose - war and work" or "weapons are an extension of the hand" or "all bladed techniques can have hand and stick techniques derived from them"etc.etc. From life-experience it seems thing aren't always so clear-cut

I definitely agree that more often, things are not clear-cut.

In a spectrum where one extreme is "tool-only" and the other is "weapon-only", I think most ethnic blades would lie somewhere in between.

Occasionally you'll have the kampilan, etc. that's a weapon-only blade. At the moment I cannot think of a (Filipino) tool-only blade but I'm sure there's one.

But as you also said, the vast majority of ethnic blades would lie somewhere in between. And apparently that's true for the Samar-Leyte sundang as well.

Even the sinister-looking northern Luzon head-axe for instance, is used more often as a tool, rather than to smite an enemy, as noted earlier ...

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

________________________________________OFF TOPIC___________________________________________

That's my family-name: Tseng, I am what's known as Huh-lwo, Hoklo, or Hokkien. I have the Chinese character and Aboriginal symbols to show my mixed ancestry ... ----what does yours mean?

Thanks for sharing the meaning of the uber-cool avatar of yours!

The script in my avatar harks back to my family history. The characters mean "tamer of the serpent bakunawa, protector of the seas, and rider of the storm". Ok, ok, I just made that up! As Dimasalang explained, it's the ancient Philippine script (and the characters refer to my real name's initials).

And said alibata script can still be found occasionally in old Philippine swords (e.g. below).

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

It's interesting when people, even historians and martial artists, make blanket statements like "Talibon were only weapons" or "all Filipino weaponry had a duality of purpose - war and work" or "weapons are an extension of the hand" or "all bladed techniques can have hand and stick techniques derived from them"etc.etc. From life-experience it seems thing aren't always so clear-cut

I've been thinking, in the olden times perhaps it's really the agricultural [work] design of a blade that heavily influences martial arts [war] style ...

Like in any agricultural society in which economic surplus is not that much, most people can afford only one bolo. And so it makes sense to design the bolo around its intended agricultural use, as the community is engaged in farming most of the time anyway rather than in hacking other people

On the duality thing while not always true, we also see on the other hand that there indeed exist instances where the duality is there (i.e., work & war application is seen on the same blade, like the Leyte-Samar sundang).

Thus, whereas the Full Metal Jacket grunts have to chant

"This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle I am useless ..."

for the typical Filipino farmer of old, when pressed into military service there would be no need for such mantra

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Nonoy Tan

I suspect that there was hardly any so called "tourist" blades during the period of Spanish “rule” - because the tourist market and the "tourism industry" was not yet developed. Furthermore, almost every Filipino household probably owned a bladed weapon - pointed or not. And even if a pointed weapon was outlawed, it did not stop anybody (including the lowlanders paying tribute to the colonial government) from owning and keeping one at home (i.e. not brought out in public).

Thus, the likely answer to your question is "No".

Nonoy, thanks!

If I may add a point or two in support of that, the Leyte-Samar sundang (also known as garab or talibon in some parts of those Visayan islands) is for instance configured that way for a reason.

Like the sagging (i.e., convex) shape of the cutting edge is supposed to split more efficiently a coconut nut

And then the pointy tip was designed to scoop out the copra [dried coconut kernel] efficiently ... like what the tourist in the pic below is trying to learn.

And then the (short) length of the sundang/garab/talibon was deliberate -- that was done so that the coconut farmer need not spread his arms farther apart than necessary, while extracting the copra from the shell.

And so even if pointed bolos were outlawed then, in many instances and for very practical reasons, the prohibition simply couldn't had been followed.

[kai]

Hello Miguel,

If I may add a point or two in support of that, the Leyte-Samar sundang (also known as garab or talibon in some parts of those Visayan islands) is for instance configured that way for a reason.

Like the sagging (i.e., convex) shape of the cutting edge is supposed to split more efficiently a coconut nut

And then the pointy tip was designed to scoop out the copra [dried coconut kernel] efficiently ... like what the tourist in the pic below is trying to learn.

Well, he's obviously playing with a freshly opened coconut not copra. Else he wouldn't smile that much anymore...

AFAIK, copra is really not that difficult to remove from the shell since most of it is already detached due to the drying process - wouldn't something like a spoon work much better/faster? I somehow have a problem imagining the thin tip of Bill's nice garab being used for working copra! BTW, isn't the copra trade a fairly recent (i.e. colonial) phenomenon? From my travels, ripe coconuts seemed to be of very little interest to any local population - they only utilized young coconuts (or, at least, still fairly soft ones for making coconut cream).

And then the (short) length of the sundang/garab/talibon was deliberate -- that was done so that the coconut farmer need not spread his arms farther apart than necessary, while extracting the copra from the shell.

That's definitely too much of a stretch for me...

Regards,
Kai

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by kai

To me #1 looks like a bat-head "bolo" (usually attributed to Batangas)...

Thanks for the info, Kai!

Originally Posted by kai

Well, he's obviously playing with a freshly opened coconut not copra. Else he wouldn't smile that much anymore...

Thanks for pointing that out ... yes indeed, copra's smell is an acquired taste

But yes, as you noted the photo shows a freshly opened mature coconut. And thus to scoop out that fresh kernel, you really need a sharp and pointed bolo, as at that point the kernel still sticks very much to the shell.

Originally Posted by kai

AFAIK, copra is really not that difficult to remove from the shell since most of it is already detached due to the drying process - wouldn't something like a spoon work much better/faster?

Actually, I made the mistake in my earlier post by saying the tourist is scooping out copra.

The process of making copra is as follows: you split a mature coconut in two, then you scoop out the fresh thick & hard kernel with a bolo and you throw away the shell (for some later other use), and then you dry that kernel (without the shell), and after some time, the kernel becomes copra.

So one will really initially need that sharp and pointed bolo to separate that fresh kernel from the shell

BTW, isn't the copra trade a fairly recent (i.e. colonial) phenomenon? From my travels, ripe coconuts seemed to be of very little interest to any local population - they only utilized young coconuts (or, at least, still fairly soft ones for making coconut cream).

Copra's mass production would date back to at least the mid-1800s I think.

As to which is used more, young or old coconuts, in the Philippines the latter would have much many more uses. Young coconut (i.e., buko, pronounced BOO-koh) is commonly used merely for dessert as buko salad. Mature coconut however would have a host of domestic, commercial, and industrial applications, and copra would just be one of the many

[migueldiaz]

In studying the story of the bolomen, I have yet to read Muddy Glory: America's Indian Wars in the Philippines (1981) and Bullets & Bolos: Fifteen Years in the Philippine Islands (1928).

I've read several times however, Vic Hurley's Jungle Patrol (1938) and Swish of the Kris (1936).

Can anybody please comment on whether Hurley has romanticized too much his accounts of the antagonists and protagonists?

For instance we read of this account by Hurley about the famous Lt. Leonard Furlong:

Beyond doubt, the most romantic figure of the entire American-Moro conflict, was this same Furlong. His career as a fighting man was so remarkable that to this day the Moros of Cotobato bow their heads when his name is mentioned. Furlong has become an undying tradition to these fierce Moros who respected, more than anything else, the terrific valor displayed by this man. Furlong had a strange and tragic history, the details of which were supplied to the writer by men who knew him well and who fought beside him in Mindanao. After an unfortunate love affair which made life futile to him, he came to Mindanao to seek death on the krises of the Moros. He was in the thick of the Moro fighting for several years and it was said by his associates that no odds were too great and no charge too forlorn for this soldier seeking death. His reckless disregard for his own life often took him alone across open country to the very walls of cottas swarming with hostile Moros. It is said that it was his habit to enter the cottas, far in advance of his men, and that the Moros gave way before him, denying him the death he sought. Furlong seemed to lead a charmed life. To the Moros he was supernatural, and he came through the campaigns without a scratch. When the period of cotta warfare came to and end Furlong resigned his commission and sailed for Manila. There in the capital city, he took is own life, accomplishing that which the Moros had been unable or unwilling to do.

Poetic license (i.e., the underscored portion above) or the plain truth?

But let us not miss out on the most important lesson here -- any man can survive a lot of battles and hardships, but nothing is as lethal as unrequited love

[Rick]

Originally Posted by migueldiaz

In studying the story of the bolomen, I have yet to read Muddy Glory: America's Indian Wars in the Philippines (1981) and Bullets & Bolos: Fifteen Years in the Philippine Islands (1928).

I've read several times however, Vic Hurley's Jungle Patrol (1938) and Swish of the Kris (1936).

Can anybody please comment on whether Hurley has romanticized too much his accounts of the antagonists and protagonists?

For instance we read of this account by Hurley about the famous Lt. Leonard Furlong:

Beyond doubt, the most romantic figure of the entire American-Moro conflict, was this same Furlong. His career as a fighting man was so remarkable that to this day the Moros of Cotobato bow their heads when his name is mentioned. Furlong has become an undying tradition to these fierce Moros who respected, more than anything else, the terrific valor displayed by this man. Furlong had a strange and tragic history, the details of which were supplied to the writer by men who knew him well and who fought beside him in Mindanao. After an unfortunate love affair which made life futile to him, he came to Mindanao to seek death on the krises of the Moros. He was in the thick of the Moro fighting for several years and it was said by his associates that no odds were too great and no charge too forlorn for this soldier seeking death. His reckless disregard for his own life often took him alone across open country to the very walls of cottas swarming with hostile Moros. It is said that it was his habit to enter the cottas, far in advance of his men, and that the Moros gave way before him, denying him the death he sought. Furlong seemed to lead a charmed life. To the Moros he was supernatural, and he came through the campaigns without a scratch. When the period of cotta warfare came to and end Furlong resigned his commission and sailed for Manila. There in the capital city, he took is own life, accomplishing that which the Moros had been unable or unwilling to do.

Poetic license (i.e., the underscored portion above) or the plain truth?

But let us not miss out on the most important lesson here -- any man can survive a lot of battles and hardships, but nothing is as lethal as unrequited love

I think the truth may be somewhat clouded in the mists of the past yet the deeds go down in history . I would suspect that Furlong with many of his contemporarys in the Constabulary found that leading from the front inspired the ranks .\

People will always follow those who lead .

"Denying him the death he sought " ....... well, there's maybe the Journalist ..


I have both the books you mention above Miguel; both are worthwhile reads along with MYSELF AND A FEW MOROS by Cloman from the same era; all of the titles are fairly affordable .

Rick

[Dimasalang]

Originally Posted by Rick

I think the truth may be somewhat clouded in the mists of the past yet the deeds go down in history . I would suspect that Furlong with many of his contemporarys in the Constabulary found that leading from the front inspired the ranks .\

People will always follow those who lead .

"Denying him the death he sought " ....... well, there's maybe the Journalist ..


I have both the books you mention above Miguel; both are worthwhile reads along with MYSELF AND A FEW MOROS by Cloman from the same era; all of the titles are fairly affordable .

Rick

More on Leonard Furlong.
http://www.bakbakan.org/furlong.html

Given the era, I have no doubt that Furlong would have led in the front of his men. The Phil-Am War is the last war where US generals and colonels actually rode on horseback in to battle with their troops. After the Moro/Pulahan uprisings and prior to WWI, looking back on the deaths of both Gen Lawton and Col Stotsenberg makes me believe the US Military now required high ranking officers to stay in the rear or back at HQ.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Rick

I think the truth may be somewhat clouded in the mists of the past yet the deeds go down in history . I would suspect that Furlong with many of his contemporarys in the Constabulary found that leading from the front inspired the ranks .\

People will always follow those who lead .

"Denying him the death he sought " ....... well, there's maybe the Journalist ..


I have both the books you mention above Miguel; both are worthwhile reads along with MYSELF AND A FEW MOROS by Cloman from the same era; all of the titles are fairly affordable .

Rick

Thanks for the comments, Ric

And the "Moros [giving] way before him" reminds me of Moses parting the Red Sea

Thanks also for the book referral ... I just ordered a copy!