Navall boarding axe on eBay

M ELEY · 16th March 2009, 03:36 AM

Hello,
This one just ended on eBay recently. Don't know how to post thread, but here is the number- 370166340567
I have one very similar that came out of the U.K as well. I have every reason to think these types are legit, unlike amy of the WWI Brit troopers axes, ship axes and later Brit fire axes out there, but I'm just not sure of the period. Gilkerson's guide speaks about so-called 'private purchase' sea swords, but doesn't mention boarding axes, only covering the issued naval axes of the period. I personally think these types are private purchase axes for merchant/privateer ships, possibly either French, British or AMerican. One intriguing axe/musket combination weapon I saw from India recently led me to believe that it could also be from there. Mine, like this example, had pins through the haft and appears to be hand-forged (mine has roughly the same patina as this example). I'm guessing early-mid 19th century. Anyone else have opinions/comments? Thanks,
Mark

katana · 16th March 2009, 09:17 PM

Hi Mark,

Link
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

Regards David

M ELEY · 17th March 2009, 10:35 AM

Thanks so much, David!

broadaxe · 18th March 2009, 12:48 AM

Being an axe collector I have a different opinion. First of all, plenty of axes on ebay are being misrepresented as "boarding" for the sake of better selling and higher final bids (same story with "executioner axe").
To my eye, this axe looks more industrial than hand forged. The shape is not so early, I would say turn of the 20th century - note the thickness of the head, the straight blunt pick and the lack of flaring or a beard. However, there are several minor characters that set this axe away from modern fire axe - the black paint on the haft looks pretty original (typical naval); the small slots at the bottom of the head; the stylized langets. I would say this is an "intermediate axe", in between the true old, sailing age boarding axe to the rather modern personal fire axe.
Private purchase boarding axes did exist but this subject is yet to be studied.

M ELEY · 18th March 2009, 03:48 PM

Hello Michael and thanks for posting,
Ouch! Well, I do see your points when it comes to this axe. I know there have been a flood of axes resembling boarding axes lately that fit the general characteristics, but end up being fire or factory axes. This piece we are discussing does resemble mine closely, but with mine in hand, there are differences. My axe's blade does flare more, does appear to be a well-made forged piece and the spike, although straight, comes to a deadly point. It's haft isn't painted black, but has an old red staining. As previously stated, its piened to the haft, no screws. I think that it could be the real deal (mid-late 19th c.), but in the so called (and definately unstudied/un-researched) private purchase axes.
My axe's blade is more flared, like the French hach de bord, which as I recall, also had thicker heads such as this. Believe me, I DON"T want to hear I paid a high price for a modern fire axe, so I hear what you're saying, as painful as it is. I'm still out to lunch on this one, but hope to do more research and perhaps find some more info over time.

In the mean-time, I do wish someone out there would write/research about so called 'private purchase" sea swords and axes. This area is ripe for the picking and I'd love more info on this "shady area" of maritime collecting (Gilkerson has one page with 4 swords dedicated to this area. Love his book, but wish he had more). Thanks!

M ELEY · 8th April 2009, 08:59 AM

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1884.21.57/

Opinions on this one? Referred to as boarding axe with apparently some provenance? I'm assuming again a "private purchase" maritiem piece. One must remember that merchantmen and privateers far dwarfed the naval vessels of the time, so...?

Jim McDougall · 8th April 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1884.21.57/

Opinions on this one? Referred to as boarding axe with apparently some provenance? I'm assuming again a "private purchase" maritiem piece. One must remember that merchantmen and privateers far dwarfed the naval vessels of the time, so...?

Hi Mark,
This is a great post, and the Pitt Rivers description is excellent, especially along with the very pragmatic description of how these boarding axes became virtual models for firemans axes. I agree with your observations on Gilkerson, and actually I think if anybody should be writing on these private purchase weapons, you would be the best candidate

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 9th April 2009, 05:02 AM

Hello Jim and thanks for responding! Yes, this is definitely one untapped area of research/collecting that I had hoped someone might have more info on. I would love to research/collect info on this area, but my time of late is so limited.

I do hope to acquire Sim Comfort's naval weapons book you brought to my attention, Jim (Thanks!), but am still waiting to see the rather pricey volume come down to match the world economy! $300 is a little much for me

. I found the Pitt Rivers site on accident, but they have some pretty cool pieces in their collection and all correctly identified, as far as I can tell. They had an amazing chopper I was tempted to post on the Ethno site. Very fascinating item...

Jim McDougall · 9th April 2009, 09:28 PM

Hi Mark,
I agree, that reference is way pricey!!! and I do hope it comes down some. What always worries me is sometimes these limited run ventures end up going the other way. I remember when David Harding was writing "Small Arms of the East India Company" which turned into a 4 volume set. I think it started out at a couple of hundred but now the full set is as high as 2000. The most expensive thing I ever bought was "Armi Bianche Italiene" by Boccia & Coelho @ about 450.....I literally almost put that thing to bed every night

and trust me, it wasn't easy to smuggle into the bookmobile!

I think the great thing about Pitt Rivers is that they typically have the items so well provenanced and catalogued. The information included is in my opinion pretty priceless, and I would reference by them. ...here's the part where somebody reading this jumps out and announces an error they found in some reference by them

.
Actually I would love to visit all the museums there in England with all the incredible documentation they hold in addition to the wonderful collections.

On the research...I've still got projects and notes I've been dragging around for ten years or more....just add to them when something comes up, and it does, when you least expect it, where you least expect it.

Its always great to see you posting, and I know how busy things get.....but the stuff you add is always remarkably pertinant!!! fire for effect!!!

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 10th April 2009, 04:45 AM

Thanks, Jim. Can't wait to see your article on the 'running wolf' of Passau marking. I remember you bringing this subject up years ago and it will be good to have someone as knowledgible as you writing on the subject, especially with the Samuel Harvey tie-in. You are a true inspiration, perhaps even to get my lazy backside to write an article on private purchase items...someday!

Jim McDougall · 12th April 2009, 01:24 AM

Hey Mark,
Thank you for the kind words! Still working on, 'a great book, soon to be an even greater movie.....the 'Werewolf Berserks of Passau'!!

Actually I'm still rewriting as I realized some interesting points that needed reworking during and after the talk in Baltimore. I really had underestimated the amount of material I had compiled on this particular marking alone.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 19th June 2009, 12:23 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320382574557

Nice private purchase boarding axe, early-mid 19th, extremely similar to the French patterns. I paid over double for mine and it's of a more questionable pattern/provenance...

Anyway, very nice piece.

16th March 2009, 03:36 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Navall boarding axe on eBay Hello, This one just ended on eBay recently. Don't know how to post thread, but here is the number- 370166340567 I have one very similar that came out of the U.K as well. I have every reason to think these types are legit, unlike amy of the WWI Brit troopers axes, ship axes and later Brit fire axes out there, but I'm just not sure of the period. Gilkerson's guide speaks about so-called 'private purchase' sea swords, but doesn't mention boarding axes, only covering the issued naval axes of the period. I personally think these types are private purchase axes for merchant/privateer ships, possibly either French, British or AMerican. One intriguing axe/musket combination weapon I saw from India recently led me to believe that it could also be from there. Mine, like this example, had pins through the haft and appears to be hand-forged (mine has roughly the same patina as this example). I'm guessing early-mid 19th century. Anyone else have opinions/comments? Thanks, Mark

18th March 2009, 03:48 PM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hello Michael and thanks for posting, Ouch! Well, I do see your points when it comes to this axe. I know there have been a flood of axes resembling boarding axes lately that fit the general characteristics, but end up being fire or factory axes. This piece we are discussing does resemble mine closely, but with mine in hand, there are differences. My axe's blade does flare more, does appear to be a well-made forged piece and the spike, although straight, comes to a deadly point. It's haft isn't painted black, but has an old red staining. As previously stated, its piened to the haft, no screws. I think that it could be the real deal (mid-late 19th c.), but in the so called (and definately unstudied/un-researched) private purchase axes. My axe's blade is more flared, like the French hach de bord, which as I recall, also had thicker heads such as this. Believe me, I DON"T want to hear I paid a high price for a modern fire axe, so I hear what you're saying, as painful as it is. I'm still out to lunch on this one, but hope to do more research and perhaps find some more info over time. In the mean-time, I do wish someone out there would write/research about so called 'private purchase" sea swords and axes. This area is ripe for the picking and I'd love more info on this "shady area" of maritime collecting (Gilkerson has one page with 4 swords dedicated to this area. Love his book, but wish he had more). Thanks! Last edited by M ELEY; 19th March 2009 at 04:22 AM.

19th June 2009, 12:23 PM	#12
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Another nice one http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=320382574557 Nice private purchase boarding axe, early-mid 19th, extremely similar to the French patterns. I paid over double for mine and it's of a more questionable pattern/provenance... Anyway, very nice piece.

16th March 2009, 09:17 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Mark, Link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 Regards David

17th March 2009, 10:35 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Thanks so much, David!

18th March 2009, 12:48 AM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	Being an axe collector I have a different opinion. First of all, plenty of axes on ebay are being misrepresented as "boarding" for the sake of better selling and higher final bids (same story with "executioner axe"). To my eye, this axe looks more industrial than hand forged. The shape is not so early, I would say turn of the 20th century - note the thickness of the head, the straight blunt pick and the lack of flaring or a beard. However, there are several minor characters that set this axe away from modern fire axe - the black paint on the haft looks pretty original (typical naval); the small slots at the bottom of the head; the stylized langets. I would say this is an "intermediate axe", in between the true old, sailing age boarding axe to the rather modern personal fire axe. Private purchase boarding axes did exist but this subject is yet to be studied.

8th April 2009, 08:59 AM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1884.21.57/ Opinions on this one? Referred to as boarding axe with apparently some provenance? I'm assuming again a "private purchase" maritiem piece. One must remember that merchantmen and privateers far dwarfed the naval vessels of the time, so...?

9th April 2009, 05:02 AM	#8
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Hello Jim and thanks for responding! Yes, this is definitely one untapped area of research/collecting that I had hoped someone might have more info on. I would love to research/collect info on this area, but my time of late is so limited. I do hope to acquire Sim Comfort's naval weapons book you brought to my attention, Jim (Thanks!), but am still waiting to see the rather pricey volume come down to match the world economy! $300 is a little much for me . I found the Pitt Rivers site on accident, but they have some pretty cool pieces in their collection and all correctly identified, as far as I can tell. They had an amazing chopper I was tempted to post on the Ethno site. Very fascinating item...

9th April 2009, 09:28 PM	#9
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,949	Hi Mark, I agree, that reference is way pricey!!! and I do hope it comes down some. What always worries me is sometimes these limited run ventures end up going the other way. I remember when David Harding was writing "Small Arms of the East India Company" which turned into a 4 volume set. I think it started out at a couple of hundred but now the full set is as high as 2000. The most expensive thing I ever bought was "Armi Bianche Italiene" by Boccia & Coelho @ about 450.....I literally almost put that thing to bed every night and trust me, it wasn't easy to smuggle into the bookmobile! I think the great thing about Pitt Rivers is that they typically have the items so well provenanced and catalogued. The information included is in my opinion pretty priceless, and I would reference by them. ...here's the part where somebody reading this jumps out and announces an error they found in some reference by them . Actually I would love to visit all the museums there in England with all the incredible documentation they hold in addition to the wonderful collections. On the research...I've still got projects and notes I've been dragging around for ten years or more....just add to them when something comes up, and it does, when you least expect it, where you least expect it. Its always great to see you posting, and I know how busy things get.....but the stuff you add is always remarkably pertinant!!! fire for effect!!! All the best, Jim

10th April 2009, 04:45 AM	#10
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,097	Thanks, Jim. Can't wait to see your article on the 'running wolf' of Passau marking. I remember you bringing this subject up years ago and it will be good to have someone as knowledgible as you writing on the subject, especially with the Samuel Harvey tie-in. You are a true inspiration, perhaps even to get my lazy backside to write an article on private purchase items...someday!

12th April 2009, 01:24 AM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,949	Hey Mark, Thank you for the kind words! Still working on, 'a great book, soon to be an even greater movie.....the 'Werewolf Berserks of Passau'!! Actually I'm still rewriting as I realized some interesting points that needed reworking during and after the talk in Baltimore. I really had underestimated the amount of material I had compiled on this particular marking alone. All the best, Jim