Zanzibar/Yemen Saif with an Ethiopian Blade

TVV · 13th March 2009, 05:25 AM

Charles, Tim and JIm, thank you for the responses.

So based on all the components , which seem to tell a remarkable story about the journeys of this item, what should it be called - a Red Sea sabre?

Jim McDougall · 13th March 2009, 05:19 PM

Hi Teodor,
Interesting question, and while it seems simple enough to answer without hesitation, there is a good degree of complexity involved.

As I think I have expounded too much already

I am excercising all possible restraint to avoid my views on 'cookie cutter' identification and typologies !

So I defer to simplicity , and would suggest that whenever a weapon exceeds the defined image in which it is commonly held in typology, it is best to add descriptive qualification with specific reference to it.
Hmmm, is that axiomatic?

So, though we know what this is, a composite with apparant integrity as it appears to have been servicably maintained with the components that give us its overall history, it is not specifically one type or another.

With that..perhaps a Bedouin sabre, generally of Palestinian form and with Red Sea trade associations.

All this restraint is killin me

Outa here !
Jim

TVV · 13th March 2009, 08:17 PM

Jim, my last question was asked in a jovial manner, but I believe I understand what you mean. The fun part about etnographic weapons is that unlike standard military issue items, we often deal with unique swords and daggers, often compiled from culturally diverse components.

I recall you have commented in the past that in our study of etnographic swords, the hilt is the most important element in determining the culture/ethnicity to which an item belongs. Based on this, I find your answer to be as precise as it gets.

Many thanks to you and everyone else who dropped comments in this thread. The collective knowledge in this forum is simply remarkable.

Regards,
Teodor

Jim McDougall · 13th March 2009, 08:50 PM

You're very welcome Teodor, and my thanks to you for sharing this weapon here. The collective knowledge here is indeed remarkable, and all the more so with contributions such as yours enabling us to learn together!!

I meant my response in kind, as I know some (?) of my posts get kinda long. ....but what is a guy sittin in the woods out in the middle of Texas in a Winnebago supposed to do?!! so I write

.....a lot!!!!

All the best,
Jim

13th March 2009, 05:25 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,721	Charles, Tim and JIm, thank you for the responses. So based on all the components , which seem to tell a remarkable story about the journeys of this item, what should it be called - a Red Sea sabre?

13th March 2009, 05:19 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,634	Hi Teodor, Interesting question, and while it seems simple enough to answer without hesitation, there is a good degree of complexity involved. As I think I have expounded too much already I am excercising all possible restraint to avoid my views on 'cookie cutter' identification and typologies ! So I defer to simplicity , and would suggest that whenever a weapon exceeds the defined image in which it is commonly held in typology, it is best to add descriptive qualification with specific reference to it. Hmmm, is that axiomatic? So, though we know what this is, a composite with apparant integrity as it appears to have been servicably maintained with the components that give us its overall history, it is not specifically one type or another. With that..perhaps a Bedouin sabre, generally of Palestinian form and with Red Sea trade associations. All this restraint is killin me Outa here ! Jim

13th March 2009, 08:17 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,721	Jim, my last question was asked in a jovial manner, but I believe I understand what you mean. The fun part about etnographic weapons is that unlike standard military issue items, we often deal with unique swords and daggers, often compiled from culturally diverse components. I recall you have commented in the past that in our study of etnographic swords, the hilt is the most important element in determining the culture/ethnicity to which an item belongs. Based on this, I find your answer to be as precise as it gets. Many thanks to you and everyone else who dropped comments in this thread. The collective knowledge in this forum is simply remarkable. Regards, Teodor

13th March 2009, 08:50 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,634	You're very welcome Teodor, and my thanks to you for sharing this weapon here. The collective knowledge here is indeed remarkable, and all the more so with contributions such as yours enabling us to learn together!! I meant my response in kind, as I know some (?) of my posts get kinda long. ....but what is a guy sittin in the woods out in the middle of Texas in a Winnebago supposed to do?!! so I write .....a lot!!!! All the best, Jim