What Would You Do ?

LPCA · 3rd March 2009, 06:31 PM

Robert, here is some pics of the Yathagan's restoration.

The main problem was the recovery of the hilt and the building of the 2 hears in a hard and dark wood.

I did 3 pairs of hears and choose among them the less more horrible.
I added 2 pieces of ivory.
IThen i used gold leaves for the metallic parts.

Louis-Pierre

Robert · 4th March 2009, 04:00 AM

Louis-Pierre, Great work on the hilt restoration!! The results for the one that I'm working on are below. Sorry about the picture quality but I had to take them inside because it's dark outside here. Could use a little more work in a couple of areas but I will probably leave it as is.

Robert

LPCA · 4th March 2009, 04:12 AM

Perfect, Robert and a nice job too.
What is to keep in mind is that is better to try to save a damaged hilt with restoration than to replace it systematically....when it's possible of course.

Louis-Pierre

Robert · 4th March 2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LPCA

Perfect, Robert and a nice job too.
What is to keep in mind is that is better to try to save a damaged hilt with restoration than to replace it systematically....when it's possible of course.

Louis-Pierre

Louis-Pierre[/QUOTE]

Louis-Pierre, Thank you for your kind words. Saving the damaged grip was exactly what I had in mind when I started this restoration. I wanted to save what was left of the original horn and try to stabilize it in the process. I tried to leave in some of the imperfections so it would not look brand new and it would match up better with with the blade. A new grip might look better, but to me it would look out of place once it was mounted to the old blade. Because of the bonding strength of the epoxy I also believe it could now be used as intended "if needed" without worrying about the blade coming loose from the grip. I hope that I never need to find out if I'm right about this or not.

Robert

ariel · 4th March 2009, 11:44 PM

Once again, we are getting into murky waters of what is permissible in the restoration process.
Obviously, Robert's bolo is not of real cultural importance. The goal was to make it look better and " serviceable". I have no objection to that. The yataghan is also unlikely to ever be exhibited in the Metropolitan Museum of Arts.
What drives me bananas is when people find a really unique item, and "renovate" it into a shiny but culturally meaningless object. Some are even seriously describing it as a "reuse". Well, this is permissible only if one absolutely needs a part for actual use: a swordmaker from 15th century remounting a 13th century blade to use it as functional weapon. These days, we do not really need swords as weapons and destruction of archeological objects should be viewed as criminal offense. Stabilize, preserve, protect, but never renovate!
Look at the Topkapi collection of the swords of Muhammed and Califs. Bloody Ottoman sultans ordered the swords remounted, repolished, re-inscribed etc. By now it is impossible to make even a half-decent guess about their age, provenance, original construction etc. Did the Sultans really need them as weapons? No way, they had enough newly-made ones. Cultural barbarism with the best intentions!

David · 5th March 2009, 12:10 AM

Ariel, i think we are on to apples and oranges here. I see nothing murky in the waters of this thread and find the restoration work these guys have done admirable.

ariel · 5th March 2009, 02:42 AM

Oh, no! Both of these are perfectly legit in my book. Good job(s), guys!

I was just irritated because of a post on another forum: a very old and rare knife that should have been in the museum, fell in the hands of an enthusiastic "recycler". The rusty blade was removed and discarded, a new and shiny was put in and the owner proudly presented the final product as something he would now use as a hunting? kitchen? utility? implement. Ugh...
Sorry if my remark appeared aggressive; I had no intentions to offend anyone ( except, maybe, the Sultans).

3rd March 2009, 06:31 PM	#1
LPCA Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toulouse - FRANCE Posts: 83	Robert, here is some pics of the Yathagan's restoration. The main problem was the recovery of the hilt and the building of the 2 hears in a hard and dark wood. I did 3 pairs of hears and choose among them the less more horrible. I added 2 pieces of ivory. IThen i used gold leaves for the metallic parts. Louis-Pierre Attached Images

4th March 2009, 04:00 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Louis-Pierre, Great work on the hilt restoration!! The results for the one that I'm working on are below. Sorry about the picture quality but I had to take them inside because it's dark outside here. Could use a little more work in a couple of areas but I will probably leave it as is. Robert Attached Images

4th March 2009, 04:12 AM	#3
LPCA Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toulouse - FRANCE Posts: 83	Perfect, Robert and a nice job too. What is to keep in mind is that is better to try to save a damaged hilt with restoration than to replace it systematically....when it's possible of course. Louis-Pierre

4th March 2009, 11:44 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Once again, we are getting into murky waters of what is permissible in the restoration process. Obviously, Robert's bolo is not of real cultural importance. The goal was to make it look better and " serviceable". I have no objection to that. The yataghan is also unlikely to ever be exhibited in the Metropolitan Museum of Arts. What drives me bananas is when people find a really unique item, and "renovate" it into a shiny but culturally meaningless object. Some are even seriously describing it as a "reuse". Well, this is permissible only if one absolutely needs a part for actual use: a swordmaker from 15th century remounting a 13th century blade to use it as functional weapon. These days, we do not really need swords as weapons and destruction of archeological objects should be viewed as criminal offense. Stabilize, preserve, protect, but never renovate! Look at the Topkapi collection of the swords of Muhammed and Califs. Bloody Ottoman sultans ordered the swords remounted, repolished, re-inscribed etc. By now it is impossible to make even a half-decent guess about their age, provenance, original construction etc. Did the Sultans really need them as weapons? No way, they had enough newly-made ones. Cultural barbarism with the best intentions!

5th March 2009, 12:10 AM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Ariel, i think we are on to apples and oranges here. I see nothing murky in the waters of this thread and find the restoration work these guys have done admirable.

5th March 2009, 02:42 AM	#7
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Oh, no! Both of these are perfectly legit in my book. Good job(s), guys! I was just irritated because of a post on another forum: a very old and rare knife that should have been in the museum, fell in the hands of an enthusiastic "recycler". The rusty blade was removed and discarded, a new and shiny was put in and the owner proudly presented the final product as something he would now use as a hunting? kitchen? utility? implement. Ugh... Sorry if my remark appeared aggressive; I had no intentions to offend anyone ( except, maybe, the Sultans).