Re: The oldest known handgun in existence, ca. 1400-10

[Matchlock]

The description of the Springfield Armory piece.

[Matchlock]

The so called Berne gun, preserved at the Historic Museum Berne, Switzerland; sadly not seen on display for decades like almost all their weapons.

The oak stock is the original one while the hook nailed thru the stock seems to be a working addition of ca. 1430-40 when the first hooks turned up.

The stats are:
oa. length 95.2 cm, oa. weight 4.15 kg, barrel length 18.5 cm, octagonal throughout, length of bore 15.0 cm, outer muzzle diameter 5.6 cm, bore 3.5 cm.

A very similar wrought iron barrel, ca. 1380-1400, and retaining one of its originally two iron stock bands, is in my collection (attchaments below). Its eight sides alternate in width which, according to my experience, is characteristic of almost all of the earliest octagonal barrels. Like on the Berne gun, the touch hole is some 3 cm forward of the rear end. Unlike the Berne gun, the bore of my item has been drilled out within its working life. You can see the drill marks on the inner wall of the barrel, as well the place on the bottom which the point of the drill left. This accounts for its present cylindrical bore which most probably was of conical shape originally.

Michael

[Matchlock]

Please go to

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7076

Michael

[cornelistromp]

Hi Michael,

found yesterday in the real armeria in Madrid two early examples.
Dated 1450 but both can be a bit earlier.

sorry, I could not make better pictures with my mobil phone

best regards

[Matchlock]

Thank you so much, Cornelis.

I found the attached pictures.

These items are very difficult to date. I should assign a dating of "early 16th century" to the first and "ca. 1400" to the last, though, based upon the specific shapes of the barrels.

Best wishes,
Michael

[fahnenschmied]

Some time ago I found some inspiration in the interesting mechanism posted by Matchlock at the beginning of this thread. No, I haven't set out to duplicate it, but it did seem a useful addition to my handcannon.
Yes, that was going to be a Tannenberg style gun....I only wanted my father to bore it and turn the exterior roughly - I was going to rasp it off much like the original, all crooked and irregular - but my father spent alot of money on a milling cutter to cut the angles, so I only filed the milling marks off, for the moment. I make "serpentine" powder for it too...
This modernization didn't take long to make, once I figured it out. The spring limits the upward travel of the tinder-holder....the shorter you trim the front off the spring, the higher it will rise. At first glance, I thought the "trigger" part was made thick to give it weight, and I had no idea what the spring was doing on top. Besides, it looked too weak for anything. With careful looking, though, I saw that the spring wraps underneath the serpentine arm. Simple, only two nails, and a stub of the spring is driven into the shaft.
Sighting is good - I "pinch" my target between the muzzle and the tinder, and unlike the later matchlock, I can see my ember all the way down, and also see if my priming is still there. I am still a little frightened by the loud cracking report given by my "primitive" powder! Ordinary FF powder just makes a big boom like a flintlock pistol or so.

[Matchlock]

Well done, fahnenschmied!

Michael

[Spiridonov]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

You can see the drill marks on the inner wall of the barrel, as well the place on the bottom which the point of the drill left.

Michael, Hallo! Do you really think that it was drilled at the 1380-1400 yaer?

[Matchlock]

Hello Alexender,

No, there definitely was no drilling of barrels before ca. 1430, a time when they were mounted first with hooks, but not yet wrought integrally.

As I wrote, I surmised that both the Berne gun and my barrel were drilled out somewhen in their later working life, which may have been during the 15th century.

As you know I have a Nuremberg wrought iron haquebut barrel which cannot have been made before ca. 1490/1500 but the inner surface of which has never been drilled! Not only is it of totally irregular 'bore' at the muzzle but one can look inside and see heavy distortions going on down to the rear! The only ammunition it could have possibly fired would be some kind of shot ... I am sure you recall seeing it in my collection when you were here in August.

Attached please find images. It is the second last in the first pic and the one on the right in the row of muzzles.

Best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

One more detail, this time it's the one on top.

m

[Spiridonov]

Michael, I have made a mistake in translation of your post (25th February 2009 10:38 PM). That is why i was so wondered. I know that drilling is not possible for early 15 century. Shall you say me, when did this barrel was drilled? 100 years later that time when it was made?

[Matchlock]

Right, Alexender,

That's exactly what I think, if not even still later!

Best,
Michael