Tulwar or Khanda

Rick · 20th April 2005, 03:37 PM

Hi Andy , could you possibly take a sharp picture of the circular stamp near the langet ?
I would appreciate it very much !

Andy Stevens · 20th April 2005, 07:50 PM

Hello Rick
Here is a picture of the round stamp. I dont think the clarity will help much. Is this a makers stamp? I intend to post a couple of other Indian bits soon, I will try to get better photos.

Rick · 20th April 2005, 08:02 PM

Hi Andy , any similarity to this stamp ?
I would guess it is a partial MFR's stamp .

spiral · 20th April 2005, 08:35 PM

In Nepal they are called, Khanda,Kharga & Khadga.

Spiral

ariel · 20th April 2005, 09:15 PM

I seem to be out of line here, but to me it is a Patissa rather than Khanda.
Khandas traditionally have metal reinforcements on foth edges , covering about 2/3 and 1/3 of the edge respectively. And, of course the usually have what rawson called Indian Basket handle.
Patissa, on the other hand, is just a staright double edge sword widening towards the tip. Seems to fit.
Objections?

tom hyle · 21st April 2005, 01:49 AM

I think this sword is single edged, except at the tip? Also, It seems to me that the reinforcing strips are commonly rivetted or soldered on, and could be viewed (I was viewing them so) as part of the dress, though they could certainly also be viewed as part of the blade.....

RSWORD · 21st April 2005, 03:20 AM

Aren't Khanda and Pattisa blades typically double edged? As Tom points out, this blade is single edged and this seems a bit atypical to the other blade types. I have an example in my collection with a blade that is also single edged with a Pattisa/Khanda like tip, however, I do not believe that tip configuration was original to the blade on my example. My sword has a different hilt style than the example posted here. Perhaps these are a different blade form and shouldn't be lumped in with Pattisa or Khanda.

Jim McDougall · 21st April 2005, 05:01 AM

In looking at this interesting example, I tend to agree with Tom in that the hilt appears to be more in line with tulwar hilts. While the unusual spooned blade tip does resemble those typically seen on examples of 'pattisa' as Ariel has suggested, this blade also does seem single edged.
Pant (p.65-66) notes that the pattisa blades are double edged, with the pattisa's being quite flexible and the seatings are typically longer than the khanda. It should be noted that the original khandas had very similar hilts to this form and that both khanda and pattisa were originally from S. central India.

I am inclined to think that this example is from the northern regions, most likely Rajasthan. It is noted that khanda/pattisa hybrids are known, which is not at all surprising with the broad diffusion of weapons in the Indian subcontinent. This very diffusion took the khanda to the north where as noted it did become a religious icon to the Sikhs, in the more well known form with the so called 'Hindu basket hilt'. The actual worship of the khanda was also well known by the Rajputs, who prevailed in Rajasthan regions, and the trisula was key in symbolism to Shiva.
Without going further into the complexities and similarities in Rajput and Sikh dogma, I am simply noting the trisula as it appears on the blade of this example. As far as I am aware, and in discussions with Sikhs asking about such symbolism, I have been told there are not distinctive symbols that are found on Sikh blades that would designate them as such.

However, in "Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan' by Lt. Col. James Tod, 1829, there is a geometric device representing a lance which is the sign of a prince or chieftain from a principality in Mewar (Rajasthan) which seems to correspond with the trident seen on this example in stylized form (p.164).
This suggests as well that this sword may well be from these regions, in addition to the unreinforced hilt of tulwar form. The cartouche which seems to be a makers stamp is also placed in the quadrant of the blade root where similar stamps are found in many early tulwar blades from these regions, the inscriptions often in Urdu.

It would be difficult to concisely classify this sword into a single category by term, but best described as probably Rajput khanda with traditional form hilt and pattisa type blade. I guess it would be a matter of opinion

since the hilt is closer to tulwar form than the old khanda, and the blade itself doesnt really conform to the description of the pattisa blades except in the widened tip.

Best regards,
Jim

20th April 2005, 07:50 PM	#2
Andy Stevens Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London Posts: 155	Hello Rick Here is a picture of the round stamp. I dont think the clarity will help much. Is this a makers stamp? I intend to post a couple of other Indian bits soon, I will try to get better photos. Attached Images

20th April 2005, 08:02 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Andy , any similarity to this stamp ? I would guess it is a partial MFR's stamp . Attached Images

20th April 2005, 03:37 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	Hi Andy , could you possibly take a sharp picture of the circular stamp near the langet ? I would appreciate it very much !

20th April 2005, 08:35 PM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	In Nepal they are called, Khanda,Kharga & Khadga. Spiral

20th April 2005, 09:15 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I seem to be out of line here, but to me it is a Patissa rather than Khanda. Khandas traditionally have metal reinforcements on foth edges , covering about 2/3 and 1/3 of the edge respectively. And, of course the usually have what rawson called Indian Basket handle. Patissa, on the other hand, is just a staright double edge sword widening towards the tip. Seems to fit. Objections?

21st April 2005, 01:49 AM	#6
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I think this sword is single edged, except at the tip? Also, It seems to me that the reinforcing strips are commonly rivetted or soldered on, and could be viewed (I was viewing them so) as part of the dress, though they could certainly also be viewed as part of the blade.....

21st April 2005, 03:20 AM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Aren't Khanda and Pattisa blades typically double edged? As Tom points out, this blade is single edged and this seems a bit atypical to the other blade types. I have an example in my collection with a blade that is also single edged with a Pattisa/Khanda like tip, however, I do not believe that tip configuration was original to the blade on my example. My sword has a different hilt style than the example posted here. Perhaps these are a different blade form and shouldn't be lumped in with Pattisa or Khanda.

21st April 2005, 05:01 AM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,670	In looking at this interesting example, I tend to agree with Tom in that the hilt appears to be more in line with tulwar hilts. While the unusual spooned blade tip does resemble those typically seen on examples of 'pattisa' as Ariel has suggested, this blade also does seem single edged. Pant (p.65-66) notes that the pattisa blades are double edged, with the pattisa's being quite flexible and the seatings are typically longer than the khanda. It should be noted that the original khandas had very similar hilts to this form and that both khanda and pattisa were originally from S. central India. I am inclined to think that this example is from the northern regions, most likely Rajasthan. It is noted that khanda/pattisa hybrids are known, which is not at all surprising with the broad diffusion of weapons in the Indian subcontinent. This very diffusion took the khanda to the north where as noted it did become a religious icon to the Sikhs, in the more well known form with the so called 'Hindu basket hilt'. The actual worship of the khanda was also well known by the Rajputs, who prevailed in Rajasthan regions, and the trisula was key in symbolism to Shiva. Without going further into the complexities and similarities in Rajput and Sikh dogma, I am simply noting the trisula as it appears on the blade of this example. As far as I am aware, and in discussions with Sikhs asking about such symbolism, I have been told there are not distinctive symbols that are found on Sikh blades that would designate them as such. However, in "Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan' by Lt. Col. James Tod, 1829, there is a geometric device representing a lance which is the sign of a prince or chieftain from a principality in Mewar (Rajasthan) which seems to correspond with the trident seen on this example in stylized form (p.164). This suggests as well that this sword may well be from these regions, in addition to the unreinforced hilt of tulwar form. The cartouche which seems to be a makers stamp is also placed in the quadrant of the blade root where similar stamps are found in many early tulwar blades from these regions, the inscriptions often in Urdu. It would be difficult to concisely classify this sword into a single category by term, but best described as probably Rajput khanda with traditional form hilt and pattisa type blade. I guess it would be a matter of opinion since the hilt is closer to tulwar form than the old khanda, and the blade itself doesnt really conform to the description of the pattisa blades except in the widened tip. Best regards, Jim