Philippine Dagger Just Ended On Ebay

t_c · 2nd February 2009, 09:03 PM

Great dagger Robert! In my FMA experience, I have never been shown any specific techniques using a pointed guard (maybe someone else has been though), otherwise I think you are right on: gouge/rake/poke ideas. Sharp and pointy can always be useful, if even just for the incidentals. It definitely adds interest to the piece, and I'm thinking that it probably has more to do with the artistic application of available materials than actually improving on the weapon - can you really improve on a blade like that!?

Either way, a really nice dagger!

Battara · 3rd February 2009, 02:20 AM

This is an Ilocano dagger. May have been used in a form similar to espada y daga.

Robert · 3rd February 2009, 09:58 PM

Thank you for the identification Jose. I was waiting for it to arrive before posting my thoughts on its origin and who possible made it. Because of not being as knowledgeable as you and others on the forum, I wanted to see the end of the hilt before making my determination.

What are your thoughts on the age of this piece? I was thinking either first or second quarter of the 20th century and hoping for the first.

Thank you again for your help and interest.

Robert

Battara · 4th February 2009, 01:47 AM

As far as age is concerned, I would rather wait for better pictures.

Robert · 4th February 2009, 11:24 PM

Well here are a few more picture. I'm not sure how much better they are though as I was having problems getting any to come out right. The pommel on this is closed ended (the tang does not go through) which seems unusual if this is from Luzon. The guard is steel or iron and the rest of the fittings including the drag on the scabbard are brass. Now that I have the dagger in hand the strange shape of the guard is still a mystery to me. Looks to me that only one section of the turtle shell on the scabbard is actually missing. When I originally looked at it in the auction pictures I thought the entire scabbard might have been covered with it at one time. The grip is well worn wood and you can see in one of the pictures it is actually octagonal in shape and not round as it looks in the original pictures.
Jose, what are your thoughts on the age of this dagger? I'm leaning towards early 20th century myself. My thanks to everyone for your all your interest and help.
Robert

t_c · 5th February 2009, 01:53 AM

Robert is it possible that the guard is made from the base of an old file?
If the dagger was part of an espada y daga (sword and dagger) set, then it was intended to be used as a left-hand weapon and the longer guard may have been designed to serve as a "shelf" of sorts to help pass or parry the opponent's weapon, similar in idea to a main-gauche (hope that takes some of the mystery out of it).

Ferguson · 5th February 2009, 01:58 AM

This may be stupid, but could the guard be used as a pick for the touchhole of a cannon or lantaka?

I think I've seen a guard like that before, but can't remember.

Steve

4th February 2009, 11:24 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well here are a few more picture. I'm not sure how much better they are though as I was having problems getting any to come out right. The pommel on this is closed ended (the tang does not go through) which seems unusual if this is from Luzon. The guard is steel or iron and the rest of the fittings including the drag on the scabbard are brass. Now that I have the dagger in hand the strange shape of the guard is still a mystery to me. Looks to me that only one section of the turtle shell on the scabbard is actually missing. When I originally looked at it in the auction pictures I thought the entire scabbard might have been covered with it at one time. The grip is well worn wood and you can see in one of the pictures it is actually octagonal in shape and not round as it looks in the original pictures. Jose, what are your thoughts on the age of this dagger? I'm leaning towards early 20th century myself. My thanks to everyone for your all your interest and help. Robert Attached Images Last edited by Robert Coleman; 5th February 2009 at 02:47 AM.

2nd February 2009, 09:03 PM	#1
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Great dagger Robert! In my FMA experience, I have never been shown any specific techniques using a pointed guard (maybe someone else has been though), otherwise I think you are right on: gouge/rake/poke ideas. Sharp and pointy can always be useful, if even just for the incidentals. It definitely adds interest to the piece, and I'm thinking that it probably has more to do with the artistic application of available materials than actually improving on the weapon - can you really improve on a blade like that!? Either way, a really nice dagger!

3rd February 2009, 02:20 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	This is an Ilocano dagger. May have been used in a form similar to espada y daga.

3rd February 2009, 09:58 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you for the identification Jose. I was waiting for it to arrive before posting my thoughts on its origin and who possible made it. Because of not being as knowledgeable as you and others on the forum, I wanted to see the end of the hilt before making my determination. What are your thoughts on the age of this piece? I was thinking either first or second quarter of the 20th century and hoping for the first. Thank you again for your help and interest. Robert

4th February 2009, 01:47 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	As far as age is concerned, I would rather wait for better pictures.

5th February 2009, 01:53 AM	#6
t_c Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: ca, usa Posts: 92	Robert is it possible that the guard is made from the base of an old file? If the dagger was part of an espada y daga (sword and dagger) set, then it was intended to be used as a left-hand weapon and the longer guard may have been designed to serve as a "shelf" of sorts to help pass or parry the opponent's weapon, similar in idea to a main-gauche (hope that takes some of the mystery out of it).

5th February 2009, 01:58 AM	#7
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	This may be stupid, but could the guard be used as a pick for the touchhole of a cannon or lantaka? I think I've seen a guard like that before, but can't remember. Steve