OTTOMAN PALA translation please

ilias · 18th January 2009, 03:26 PM

Thank you all for the good words you said about my sword.
Aslo Gonzalo about the mesurments I will provide them to you tomorrow but I can tell you right now the weight of the blade without the hilt and the guard.
It is 650 gr.Do you think it is light enough or not?

Gonzalo G · 20th January 2009, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilias

Thank you all for the good words you said about my sword.
Aslo Gonzalo about the mesurments I will provide them to you tomorrow but I can tell you right now the weight of the blade without the hilt and the guard.
It is 650 gr.Do you think it is light enough or not?

The hilt? Do you mean the wood slabs? Anyway, 650gr seems a very good weigh, I would say "light enough". I have suspected, or guessed, that somtimes the "T" spine is made on realtively thin blades, to give them more rigidity and less vibration, with less weight, but as I don´t have any "T" spined pieces I can´t make comparisons. Geometry and construction of the blades are a subject of my outmost interests, in antique and modern edged weapons. And photos rarely give idea of point of balance, weight, form of the edge and general measures, though some idea can be gotten. I belive this is an area relatively negleted on the description and study of antique weapons. I also suspect that the adornment of yataghans over the blade, made with brass or other metals, also helps to secure the handle and diminishes vibration on the moment of hitting it´s target, but I can´t be certain. Thank you for your attention.
Regards

Gonzalo

ingvar · 4th February 2009, 05:22 AM

one question. why people keep calling this "model" a pala. This is a 100% typical kilij.

maybe im wrong, but Pala (or persian name Gaddare) looked a bit different. there was several versions but the crossguard looked the same - bent in the direction of blade. Also most had the "anatomical" pommel, one like in the Karabela type.

katana · 4th February 2009, 02:22 PM

What a fantastic blade ....

Yustas · 4th February 2009, 04:05 PM

Ingvar, i agree.
This is typical Turkish kylych.
Pala is much more straight, and has cross guard bended to the front.
But is is beutifull kylych thaugh.

TVV · 4th February 2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yustas

Pala is much more straight, and has cross guard bended to the front.

Source please?

Yustas · 4th February 2009, 04:55 PM

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kilij

The kilij (also spelled kilic) is a sword used by the Ottoman Empire starting around the late 15th century. These blades were a distinct variation on the Turko-Mongol sabers that had been used over all the lands touched by the empire of the Kahns.

The oldest surviving examples sport a long blade with a gentle curve slightly more noticeable in the distal half. The width of the blade stays thin (with a slight taper) up until the last 30% of its length, at which point it flares deeper. This distinctive flaring tip is called a "yelman" which greatly adds to the cutting power of the sword. Swords of the next couple of centuries were mainly of the Persian shamshir variety; Persian blades (that did not have the yelman) were fitted with Ottoman hilts. These hilts normally had slightly larger upper guards, and sported a bobble of a end-grip compared to the parent shamshir. In the mid 18th century the kilij produced looked much more like the original design, though shorter, much more acutely curved, and sporting a deep blade with an even deeper yelman. In addition to the flared tip, these blades have a distinct "T-shaped" cross section to the back of the blade. This allows even greater strength and hence greater ability to cause grievous wounds when cleaving. The flared and 'cut away' profile of these thick blades gave it the archetypal 'Voyages of Sinbad' appearance. Some of these shorter Kilij are also referred to as "Pala" but there does not seem to be a clear cut distinction in naming.

ingvar · 4th February 2009, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

Source please?

there are many things in history you cannot source. you know.

From what i read from a historian working in Kremlin's Historic Weaponry Room, Pala is a parade version of Klij, things that differ it from a basic Klij is a specific srossguard. Early Pala had a Karabella type pommel, later Pala had a typical bulbous turkish pommel.

In this case the sourse is book "Turkish Weapons" by E. Astvatsaurian.

4th February 2009, 05:22 AM	#3
ingvar Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 11	one question. why people keep calling this "model" a pala. This is a 100% typical kilij. maybe im wrong, but Pala (or persian name Gaddare) looked a bit different. there was several versions but the crossguard looked the same - bent in the direction of blade. Also most had the "anatomical" pommel, one like in the Karabela type. Attached Images

18th January 2009, 03:26 PM	#1
ilias Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: GREECE Posts: 73	Thank you all for the good words you said about my sword. Aslo Gonzalo about the mesurments I will provide them to you tomorrow but I can tell you right now the weight of the blade without the hilt and the guard. It is 650 gr.Do you think it is light enough or not?

4th February 2009, 02:22 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	What a fantastic blade ....

4th February 2009, 04:05 PM	#5
Yustas Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 40	Ingvar, i agree. This is typical Turkish kylych. Pala is much more straight, and has cross guard bended to the front. But is is beutifull kylych thaugh.

4th February 2009, 04:55 PM	#7
Yustas Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 40	http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kilij The kilij (also spelled kilic) is a sword used by the Ottoman Empire starting around the late 15th century. These blades were a distinct variation on the Turko-Mongol sabers that had been used over all the lands touched by the empire of the Kahns. The oldest surviving examples sport a long blade with a gentle curve slightly more noticeable in the distal half. The width of the blade stays thin (with a slight taper) up until the last 30% of its length, at which point it flares deeper. This distinctive flaring tip is called a "yelman" which greatly adds to the cutting power of the sword. Swords of the next couple of centuries were mainly of the Persian shamshir variety; Persian blades (that did not have the yelman) were fitted with Ottoman hilts. These hilts normally had slightly larger upper guards, and sported a bobble of a end-grip compared to the parent shamshir. In the mid 18th century the kilij produced looked much more like the original design, though shorter, much more acutely curved, and sporting a deep blade with an even deeper yelman. In addition to the flared tip, these blades have a distinct "T-shaped" cross section to the back of the blade. This allows even greater strength and hence greater ability to cause grievous wounds when cleaving. The flared and 'cut away' profile of these thick blades gave it the archetypal 'Voyages of Sinbad' appearance. Some of these shorter Kilij are also referred to as "Pala"* but there does not seem to be a clear cut distinction in naming.*