MANDAU HANDLE / MODEL OR TRADE ?

[asomotif]

I have a loose wooden mandau handle that has not been used. no holes, no rattan.

Where these models as example for carvers ? or handles made for trade ?

Does anyone have similar unused handles in their collections ?
Any idea on the age of this example ?

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by asomotif

I have a loose wooden mandau handle that has not been used. no holes, no rattan.

Where these models as example for carvers ? or handles made for trade ?

Does anyone have similar unused handles in their collections ?
Any idea on the age of this example ?

Hi Willem,

Tromp left a collection unused wooden hilt models to the RMV in Leiden.
They seems to be models and maybe he ordered a woodcarver to carve them they are quite patinaless.
I think your handle is maybe also a model.
There are also blade models in wood in the RMV.

I don't have that model yet in my collection!

Arjan.

[Maurice]

I have no idea about this hilt.........

But I do know my watermeter had been repaired!

(sorry ....just kidding )



Maurice

[Dajak]

It looks that it maybe has been used as an stopper on an bamboo tube.

Ben

[asomotif]

an stopper on an bamboo tube.

No, than you should look again.
Maybe have a check up at specsavers

[Maurice]

Dear friends,


Check this site out...........
http://opticien.verzamelgids.nl/

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by asomotif

No, than you should look again.
Maybe have a check up at specsavers

What you mean to look at it is newly carved !!!

If you cannot see it at least you know where to go too .

On Bali as much as you want from this type .

Ben

[asomotif]

What you mean to look at it is newly carved !!!

I don't understand Ben.
First you say it is a stopper for a bamboo tube.
Now you assume it is newly carved.

I don't know, bought it on a militairy arms fair approx 10 years ago.

On Bali as much as you want from this type .

This I do'nt know either Ben. I never been to Bali, but you visit there quite frequently. Funny, never would have guessed that Bali is the place to buy Borneo art. Would not be the real thing would it ?

[Dajak]

[QUOTE=asomotif]I don't understand Ben.
First you say it is a stopper for a bamboo tube.
Now you assume it is newly carved.

I don't know, bought it on a militairy arms fair approx 10 years ago.


It is an newly carved bamboo stopper and I never see this at your place strange when you have it for 10 years isnt it .


Ben

[Dajak]

[
This I do'nt know either Ben. I never been to Bali, but you visit there quite frequently. Funny, never would have guessed that Bali is the place to buy Borneo art. Would not be the real thing would it ? [/QUOTE]

Bali is the place to don't buy art 99.99% false/reproduction/fantasie stuff like your bamboo stopper .

Ben

[asomotif]

I never see this at your place strange when you have it for 10 years isnt it

You visited my home 3 times.
Once we sat in the garden about 5 years ago with nice weather and the second time was over a year ago you had dinner . it would be supernatural if you had been able to see everything in my collection and even memorise everything.

If I say this was in my collection 10 years, believe me it was.

In dutch : "zoals de waard is..."

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by asomotif

You visited my home 3 times.
Once we sat in the garden about 5 years ago with nice weather and the second time was over a year ago you had dinner . it would be supernatural if you had been able to see everything in my collection and even memorise everything.

If I say this was in my collection 10 years, believe me it was.

In dutch : "zoals de waard is..."

You also showed me an skull that you put in coffee and thee to darken it so this Dutch saying I think is more for you.
So when you showed me your Borneo collection and told me this is what you have you did not tell the thrut . (nice to know and it was more than 3 times but your memory I did already notice isn t getting better 'you mixed up to many things)

When I picked up the spears/peddle 2 times .(but it s realy getting down whit your memory

And for you to see if something is old must be a piece off cake because in an advertisement you tell you can see trough paint how old the wood is strange you ask the period off an handle that is not painted .

Wie de billen brand moet ......... also Dutch

Ben

[asomotif]

Ben, You're off topic.

If you think this is a stopper for a bamboo tube. fine with me.
Opinions are like ...holes, everyone is entitled to have one.
If you did or did not see this at my home is also not very relevant.

the fact that is unused, hardly any patina makes it difficult to judge.
So any help would be welcome, regardless of the outcome.

But don't come in here telling me this is part of a bamboo tube made in Bali just because you never seen it before.

[VANDOO]

I ALSO COLLECT WOOD, IVORY,BONE AND STONE CARVINGS. THE CARVERS IN BALI ARE VERY SKILLED AND COULD EASILY CARVE MANDAU HANDLES BUT FOR SOME REASON MY GUT TELLS ME THIS DOSEN'T REALLY STRIKE ME AS BALINESE CARVING, ITS JUST NOT QUITE THEIR STYLE. OF COURSE I HAVEN'T BEEN THERE SINCE 2001 SO ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE NOW.
THE SIZE APPEARS TO BE 15 CM. WHICH IS A LARGE SIZE MANDAU HANDLE BUT STILL IN THE RANGE TO BE USED AS SUCH AND IT IS AN UNFINISHED PIECE. THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE SOME CHIPPED WOOD DAMMAGE AND PERHAPS EVEN A VERY LIGHT PATINA DIFFICULT TO TELL FROM PICTURES. I AM SURE PROFESSIONALS WHO CARVED HANDLES FOR MANDAUS AND OTHER OBJECTS DID HAVE EXAMPLES OF THE DIFFERENT STYLES OF THEIR WORK TO SHOW TO CUSTOMERS SO THEY COULD MAKE THEIR SELECTIONS. I SAW SUCH EXAMPLES OF KERIS HANDLES AND SCABBARDS IN BALI AT A PROFESSIONAL CARVERS SHOP.
BALI SEEMS TO BE A PLACE WHERE MANY PLACES AND CULTURES SEND THEIR ARTS TO BE SOLD AS THEY HAVE A GOOD MARKET THERE WITH ALL THE TOURISTS AND DEALERS WHO COME THERE. SO PERHAPS SOME DAYAK CARVINGS MAY FIND THEIR WAY THERE FROM THE INDONESIAN PART OF BORNEO. MANDAU WERE VERY RARE WHEN I VISITED THERE BUT I DID SEE TWO NICE OLD ONES THAT A MAN HAD IN HIS COLLECTION AND HE WOULD NOT SELL THEM BUT SAID HE HAD SOLD SOME OTHERS HE HAD. AS TO HOW LONG I HAVE HAD EACH ITEM IN MY COLLECTION IT USUALLY TURNS OUT THAT I THINK I HAVE HAD SOMETHING LESS TIME THAN I THINK. THAT SEEMS TO HAPPEN WITH AGE AND IF YOU HAVE COLLECTED FOR MANY YEARS WHEN YOU GOT IT IS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.

[Dajak]

But don't come in here telling me this is part of a bamboo tube made in Bali just because you never seen it before.[/QUOTE]





I have seen piece s like this in Bali offering for sale in wood and deer .

(I only did not see it at your place)

So I don't think you get the point .

And some where on an bamboo tube on Bali in Sanur in shops between Hotel Girasantrian and the Hyat Hotel you can find this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben

[VANDOO]

WHEN I VISIT BALI NEXT TIME I WILL LOOK FOR SOME OF THESE BAMBOO BOTTLE STOPPERS AS THEY SHOULD BE A LOT LESS EXPENSIVE THAN A MANDAU HANDLE AND WITH A BIT OF MODIFICATION WOULD SERVE AS ONE.
THE ONES CARVED FROM DEER ANTLER SHOULD BE QUITE IMPRESSIVE AS I DID BUY SOME VERY GOOD CARVINGS THERE AND ONE COMPLETE CARVED DEER SKULL ENTIRELY CARVED ANTLERS AND ALL.
I DID NOT SEE ANY DAYAK STYLE DESIGNS IN 2001 BUT STYLES CHANGE AND IF THERE IS A MARKET FOR SOMETHING BALI HAS THE SKILLED CRAFTSMEN TO PRODUCE JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. THE SAME CAN BE SAID FOR CHINA BUT THEY OFTEN DON'T GET IT RIGHT AT FIRST BUT WITH A BIT OF PRACTICE IT CAN BECOME DIFFICULT TO DETECT THE NEWER ANTIQUED ITEMS.
I ENVY YOU GETTING TO VISIT BALI OFTEN AS IT IS A BEAUTIFUL AND FUN PLACE WITH LOTS TO DO AND KEEP YOU INTERESTED AS WELL AS GREAT ART TO BUY.

[Dajak]

Hi Barry

They sell new carved Hornbill real hornbill for 30 euro in Kuta .

I still have the buisniscart off the shop anywhere so when you go let me know .


Ben

[asomotif]

Ben,
You sure like to brag about you knowing your way around on Bali, where as you say :

art 99.99% false

Too bad that you still can't see the difference between a bamboo stopper and a mandau hilt.
Or are you just giving these complete bulls... replies for personal reasons.

What impression must this make on other forumites who have called on you for help in the past considering Borneo/Dayak weapons
In private e-mail you are calling me bitter.
But in fact you are not able to give a straightforward opinion on items.
Depending on if you like someone, or better said,
depending on if you need someone you give a shallow but positive comment on their items.

And if you dislike someone, or have personal issues with a person, you start giving very negative comments on their items. and even nonfactual comments such as in this case where something is clearly made as a mandau handle, and you start claiming it is a bamboo stopper.

[asomotif]

PS. moderators, feel free to close this thread.
Nothing sensible is comming out of it anyway

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by asomotif

Ben,
You sure like to brag about you knowing your way around on Bali, where as you say :

Too bad that you still can't see the difference between a bamboo stopper and a mandau hilt.
Or are you just giving these complete bulls... replies for personal reasons.

What impression must this make on other forumites who have called on you for help in the past considering Borneo/Dayak weapons
In private e-mail you are calling me bitter.
But in fact you are not able to give a straightforward opinion on items.
Depending on if you like someone, or better said,
depending on if you need someone you give a shallow but positive comment on their items.

And if you dislike someone, or have personal issues with a person, you start giving very negative comments on their items. and even nonfactual comments such as in this case where something is clearly made as a mandau handle, and you start claiming it is a bamboo stopper.

Sometimes are items what they are nothing less but nothing More .


Ben

ps you discus also now private email here!!!!!

[Andrew]

Willem and Ben,

Enough. I'm giving you both a "time out". When you come back, please place each other on your "ignore" lists. No one here wants to be dragged into whatever personal issues you have with each other.

Andrew