A Cirebon (put-together) keris

[A. G. Maisey]

Thanks David. I tend not to look at Ensiklopedi much.

Yeah, things do get mis-labelled, and the labels stick. My feeling towards this is that as long as it is within the culture it probably doesn't matter all that much. We've got kraton pakems, and I guess they need to be the last word, but naming of anything in Jawa is far from standardised. In fact the language itself---Javanese---is regarded by linguists as a non-standardised language, so I'm never going to get into a debate about the "correct" name of anything.

As I said:- take your pick.

[A. G. Maisey]

Further to comments in respect of the dhapur of this blade.

A check of the Surakarta pakem reveals that Kebo Kanthong is not shown in this pakem; neither is Kebo Giri, nor Mahesa Kanthong; Laler Mengeng is shown , and although it has the salient features of Kai Wee's blade, those features are interpreted differently.

In the volume that contains this pakem, a number of dhapurs are listed that are acknowledged as not appearing in the original pakem.

This list does not contain the names of any of the dhapur that I have mentioned above, but it does contain the name of Mahesa Kanthong.

Now here is something interesting:-

"kebo" is low level Javanese (ngoko) for "water buffalo"

"mahesa" ( or maesa) is high level Javanese (krama) for "water buffalo"

Since keris terminology should probably be given in krama, rather ngoko, it would seem that although "kebo" this, that and the other, in reference to dhapur is the common usage, the correct usage could perhaps be taken to be "Mahesa Kanthong".

From where I'm standing, it looks like my old dealer informant of some years ago was the person who was perhaps closest to the mark

[Marcokeris]

BluErf
Your dapur from Empu Jeno

[karset]

hii bluErf your hilt look like "cirebon" Rajamala.
name of dapur : Kebo Kanthong sad myfrend from araound jogja and solo. Kebo Giri or Mahesa Giri ( ens.Keris and in some places).thats make me confuse when i looking for this dapur i love.http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/newrep...ote=1&p=74148#

[karset]

sheath old sandang walikat madura model ,gaharu wood.pendok alpakah and turtle skin.hilt: hope i find an old danukriyo hilt or maybe ganesa cirebon or tegal.tangguh pajajaran.(still "nangguh ora sunguh!" he he,,)

[BluErf]

Whoa, what a flood of discussion and information! Seems like we are not getting much leverage on the hilt form, but I guess that is to be expected of the fringe areas around the centres of Solo and Yogya.

To Tunggulametung - don't worry, the hilt is not fixed tightly. I would change it when I get another bone/ivory Cirebon hilt.


As for the use of mendak with Cirebon kerises, I noticed that the older style Cirebon hilts come with selut. If it has a selut, does it still need a mendak?

[A. G. Maisey]

Kai Wee, you ask:-

"If it has a selut, does it still need a mendak?"

This is probably a good question.

In present day terms, the answer is definitely "yes".

However, the couple of 100% original Cirebon keris I have both came without mendak, but with iron selut.

There were iron mendak, and I suspect that complete, correct dress would be with an iron mendak, however, on the other hand, many old, 100% original, un-played with keris that I have had in my hands from East Jawa and from Bali/Lombok, did not have mendak or wewer.

I suspect that it is possible that the dress convention of the mendak is a comparatively recent one, that was not always followed, especially on lower level pieces, in earlier days.

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by BluErf

As for the use of mendak with Cirebon kerises, I noticed that the older style Cirebon hilts come with selut. If it has a selut, does it still need a mendak?

IMO it depends on the selut style. Sometimes the selut has a closing end leaving a hole for the peksi, but some other time it has an open end and simply intended to strengthen the hilt from crack despite of its decorative purpose. Maybe somebody else have an opinion about another purpose of mendak other than decorative purpose? I would say the space created by mendak will maximize the grip and intended for holder's safety againts his own blade.