19th century fencing foils - Page 3

broadaxe · 9th December 2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William V.

Thanks broadaxe for your post... nice weapons

Especially the BPR duelling epee

Thanks!

I think your "timeline" is correct. The only point in which I'm not fully d'accord is the following: I was convinced that Souzy was taken over by Soudet in the 1960's. Do you know for sure that they stopped producing during WWII?
I think I do,this has been verified by two authorities. Anyway, as you probably know, the epee construction for the last, say, 100 years, is that you can take it apart and rehilt it easily. The aluminum bowl guard can be original to the 1930's though. The thin thread grip looks period enough. I will re-check it anyhow.

Do you mind posting pictures of the markings on the blades? Not at all, with pleasure.

It will just take me some time as I'll be off line for a couple of days.

All the best

William

William V. · 9th December 2008, 11:18 PM

Honour to those who deserve it

Unfortunately I'm painfully aware that, especially with the introduction of the threaded tang, the weapons are possibly not "original" to one time, but may be assemblys of various "times". By the way, I do the same with my Gardere-handle (1950's) on a 2005 FIE tournament legal epee blade....

Thanks for the advice anyway.
By the way, it may be interesting to know that the weapon is not assembled correctly: The guard is placed for a left-handed fencer, while the grip is clearly for a right-handed.
To date the weapon correctly (if that is possible) it would be useful to find out more about "Trule, Waffen- und Fechtartikel". Problem is, that if you want to look into the official registration forms you have to pay for it, and the web is silent (MacDougalling doesn't help

). But the firm seems to have vanished very fast (or is very old) because even the oldest fencers here do not remember a company with that name.
Perhaps I should spend the money

Anyway, we are all waiting for the pictures of your weapons @ broadaxe

All the best

William

broadaxe · 12th December 2008, 11:15 PM

Ok, folks, as promissed, here are pics of the marks on the two epees.

William V. · 14th December 2008, 09:19 PM

Hi there, nice to see you back

Thanks for the detailed pictures, the first one is a mystery and gives no clues (at least for me) to solve it. The second marking can be found from time to time e.g. over here:

http://cgi.ebay.es/ANTIGUO-FLORETE-P...3286.m20.l1116

Do you know which company/forge hides behind B.P.R?

Greets

William

broadaxe · 14th December 2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William V.

Hi there, nice to see you back

Thanks for the detailed pictures, the first one is a mystery and gives no clues (at least for me) to solve it. The second marking can be found from time to time e.g. over here:

http://cgi.ebay.es/ANTIGUO-FLORETE-P...3286.m20.l1116

Do you know which company/forge hides behind B.P.R?

Greets

William

Unfortunately, I don't.

All the seller had to say was that company no longer exists.

William V. · 14th December 2008, 11:39 PM

There is still a firm working under the name "BPR" and they are working with metal (producing bending machines), but it seems that they are not identical with this firm...

Regarding the question when Souzy went bankrupt (at least it was still a question for me

) I found a remark in a book on fencing weapons by Heribert Seitz in which he stated that Souzy was producing epee points at least until 1961. I don't know how to verify this information, but... perhaps someone else does. By the way, this Mr. Seitz has published some works on ancient european fencing weapons and is quite famous for his two-volume work which seems to be some kind of standart reference book, at least for antique military weapons. The books themselves seem to be sought after, judging the prices

Do you know something about this "PR" marking we had a few posts back on the ebay foil (which went for a horrendous price)? Is it Prieur? They never answered to my request but seem to be in business for some time, they state on their web page:
"Prieur : more than two centuries of skill and experience in fencing equipment. "...

So far

William

broadaxe · 16th December 2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William V.

There is still a firm working under the name "BPR" and they are working with metal (producing bending machines), but it seems that they are not identical with this firm...

Regarding the question when Souzy went bankrupt (at least it was still a question for me

) I found a remark in a book on fencing weapons by Heribert Seitz in which he stated that Souzy was producing epee points at least until 1961. I don't know how to verify this information, but... perhaps someone else does. By the way, this Mr. Seitz has published some works on ancient european fencing weapons and is quite famous for his two-volume work which seems to be some kind of standart reference book, at least for antique military weapons. The books themselves seem to be sought after, judging the prices

Do you know something about this "PR" marking we had a few posts back on the ebay foil (which went for a horrendous price)? Is it Prieur? They never answered to my request but seem to be in business for some time, they state on their web page:
"Prieur : more than two centuries of skill and experience in fencing equipment. "...

So far

William

Sorry, don't know about that mark. I visited Prieur center in Paris about two years ago, aside sports equipment they supply the French military regulation swords and historical fencing weapons & parts. The electric blade I posted here is fitted with Prieur hilt parts (cup hilt style).

William V. · 16th December 2008, 09:12 PM

So we've met another dead end on this one...

perhaps we'll find another one

Does anyone know the book: Le "Qui est qui" de l'arme en France de 1350 a 1970
by Buigne?
Seems to cover "our" time and may reveal some answers

@broadaxe:
Check your pm's please

12th December 2008, 11:15 PM	#63
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Ok, folks, as promissed, here are pics of the marks on the two epees. Attached Images

9th December 2008, 11:18 PM	#62
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	Honour to those who deserve it Unfortunately I'm painfully aware that, especially with the introduction of the threaded tang, the weapons are possibly not "original" to one time, but may be assemblys of various "times". By the way, I do the same with my Gardere-handle (1950's) on a 2005 FIE tournament legal epee blade.... Thanks for the advice anyway. By the way, it may be interesting to know that the weapon is not assembled correctly: The guard is placed for a left-handed fencer, while the grip is clearly for a right-handed. To date the weapon correctly (if that is possible) it would be useful to find out more about "Trule, Waffen- und Fechtartikel". Problem is, that if you want to look into the official registration forms you have to pay for it, and the web is silent (MacDougalling doesn't help ). But the firm seems to have vanished very fast (or is very old) because even the oldest fencers here do not remember a company with that name. Perhaps I should spend the money Anyway, we are all waiting for the pictures of your weapons @ broadaxe All the best William

14th December 2008, 09:19 PM	#64
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	Hi there, nice to see you back Thanks for the detailed pictures, the first one is a mystery and gives no clues (at least for me) to solve it. The second marking can be found from time to time e.g. over here: http://cgi.ebay.es/ANTIGUO-FLORETE-P...3286.m20.l1116 Do you know which company/forge hides behind B.P.R? Greets William

14th December 2008, 11:39 PM	#66
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	There is still a firm working under the name "BPR" and they are working with metal (producing bending machines), but it seems that they are not identical with this firm... Regarding the question when Souzy went bankrupt (at least it was still a question for me ) I found a remark in a book on fencing weapons by Heribert Seitz in which he stated that Souzy was producing epee points at least until 1961. I don't know how to verify this information, but... perhaps someone else does. By the way, this Mr. Seitz has published some works on ancient european fencing weapons and is quite famous for his two-volume work which seems to be some kind of standart reference book, at least for antique military weapons. The books themselves seem to be sought after, judging the prices Do you know something about this "PR" marking we had a few posts back on the ebay foil (which went for a horrendous price)? Is it Prieur? They never answered to my request but seem to be in business for some time, they state on their web page: "Prieur : more than two centuries of skill and experience in fencing equipment. "... So far William

16th December 2008, 09:12 PM	#68
William V. Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 33	So we've met another dead end on this one... perhaps we'll find another one Does anyone know the book: Le "Qui est qui" de l'arme en France de 1350 a 1970 by Buigne? Seems to cover "our" time and may reveal some answers @broadaxe: Check your pm's please