Unusual Tibetan hilted Saber

Jim McDougall · 1st December 2008, 01:53 AM

Still intrigued by this captivating sabre, I continued excavations in my notes

In a copy of "Arms and Armour in Late Imperial China" by Oliver Moore ("Apollo" magazine, Feb.1995, Vol.CXL #396) the author notes in discussion of Ming and Qing weaponry that certain fashions and affectations were borrowed from Tibet, and that termly tributes were expected to be provided to the Chinese court. This included swords, knives, helmets and armour and in the long standing statutes, it is mentioned that there were "...Tibetan monks working as armourers for the Chinese court in designated monasteries in southwest province of Sichuan (p.17, and footnote #6 notes that the area in question is in the northwest zone of Sichuan, citing resource "Da Ming Huidan",108, 1a,2b,7b,9a).

It has often been suggested in my experience, that styles and blades normally not found in Chinese swords ,may have been specially made for Qing officers serving in 'frontier' regions of the Chinese empire. In a number of cases for example, there have been distinctly Chinese swords with wootz blades (or possibly pattern welded Damascus of other form, rare but known in Chinese swords), some with Indian style hilts and so on, these mostly from Xinjiang if I recall. Perhaps the above notes describing the tribute statutes might apply to Qing officers in regions of Qinghai.

Just more thoughts presenting perspective ,

All best regards,
Jim

Gavin Nugent · 1st December 2008, 03:03 AM

So very Intriguing Jim, another wonderful display of your broad knowledge and a wonderful bibliography to boot.

I have one question though, when is it that you find the time to sleep?

All the best

Gav

Jim McDougall · 1st December 2008, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

So very Intriguing Jim, another wonderful display of your broad knowledge and a wonderful bibliography to boot.

I have one question though, when is it that you find the time to sleep?

All the best

Gav

Hi Gav,
Sleep?!!

What sleep! Thank you Gav for the kind words.
So many weapons, so little time.

I just wanted to share what I could find, and hope for other input on this piece. I wish Philip Tom would come in on this as he would definitely have the bottom line.....my info is just speculation, but at least we have some ideas on possibilities.

All the best !
Jim

Gavin Nugent · 1st December 2008, 08:45 AM

A great Idea Jim!

Rick have you asked Philip Tom? I recently wrote to Philip about the Yanyuedao I posted. He did express he was very busy and had little time for posting on the forum but would communicate one on one with emails. I received a fantastic insight into the piece I had and some further good direction with which to study too. Seems like a good idea...

Haha Jim, so many weapons so little time, the wife is always having ago at me for sending so much time with the other woman

and I keep telling her all this naked steel is my pornographic library

Gav

Be sure to get back to everyone with Philip's word on the piece Rick.

1st December 2008, 01:53 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,616	Still intrigued by this captivating sabre, I continued excavations in my notes In a copy of "Arms and Armour in Late Imperial China" by Oliver Moore ("Apollo" magazine, Feb.1995, Vol.CXL #396) the author notes in discussion of Ming and Qing weaponry that certain fashions and affectations were borrowed from Tibet, and that termly tributes were expected to be provided to the Chinese court. This included swords, knives, helmets and armour and in the long standing statutes, it is mentioned that there were "...Tibetan monks working as armourers for the Chinese court in designated monasteries in southwest province of Sichuan (p.17, and footnote #6 notes that the area in question is in the northwest zone of Sichuan, citing resource "Da Ming Huidan",108, 1a,2b,7b,9a). It has often been suggested in my experience, that styles and blades normally not found in Chinese swords ,may have been specially made for Qing officers serving in 'frontier' regions of the Chinese empire. In a number of cases for example, there have been distinctly Chinese swords with wootz blades (or possibly pattern welded Damascus of other form, rare but known in Chinese swords), some with Indian style hilts and so on, these mostly from Xinjiang if I recall. Perhaps the above notes describing the tribute statutes might apply to Qing officers in regions of Qinghai. Just more thoughts presenting perspective , All best regards, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 1st December 2008 at 02:12 AM.

1st December 2008, 03:03 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Intriguing So very Intriguing Jim, another wonderful display of your broad knowledge and a wonderful bibliography to boot. I have one question though, when is it that you find the time to sleep? All the best Gav

1st December 2008, 08:45 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	A good idea Jim A great Idea Jim! Rick have you asked Philip Tom? I recently wrote to Philip about the Yanyuedao I posted. He did express he was very busy and had little time for posting on the forum but would communicate one on one with emails. I received a fantastic insight into the piece I had and some further good direction with which to study too. Seems like a good idea... Haha Jim, so many weapons so little time, the wife is always having ago at me for sending so much time with the other woman and I keep telling her all this naked steel is my pornographic library Gav Be sure to get back to everyone with Philip's word on the piece Rick.