Voodoo doll

[Dajak]

David maybe

you should visit the Netherlands this is at the moment in the museum in Amsterdam till may 2009.

http://www.tropenmuseum.nl/TM/Vodou/...FQrsXgodkBB5XQ


These pieces never be shown outside off Haiti


Ben

[David]

Originally Posted by Dajak

David maybe

you should visit the Netherlands this is at the moment in the museum in Amsterdam till may 2009.

http://www.tropenmuseum.nl/TM/Vodou/...FQrsXgodkBB5XQ


These pieces never be shown outside off Haiti


Ben

Thanks for the link Ben. Unfortunately my understanding here is limited since i do not speak Dutch. However, i seriously doubt that i need to take a trip to The Netherlands to get a better understanding of Vodou. I have been studying this religion and it's drum rhythms for more than 20 years now and have actually participated in ceremonies as a ritual drummer.
What picture of dolls in this exhibit do you believe is a "Voodoo doll" meant to gain control over another human being? I do see some ancestor effigies in the mix. Yes, there are objects in the practice that you might refer to as dolls, but i do not think you fully understand what their use and purpose are.

[brekele]

David, Actually I know nothing about Voodoo Dolls . Everytime I heard about words “Voodoo Dolls” …..my mind always think about (shaman, magic, etc) and of course all those dolls that used by a shaman.
I knew that for some people, they like to see those dolls because they haven’t seen yet. But for some people are not nice pics to see. As I said ….make affraid.

Newsteel, I’m sorry if you dont like to see that pics. But In my eyes they are just handycrafts dolls that made from part of animal body. So… I think is deepend than how the way people see about those dolls.

Michael, here another scary dolls. Enjoy those pics.

bre.

[Tim Simmons]

I would like to add a few comments. Firstly I think this thread is suitable for a forum on weapons. Secondly if I was not being told otherwise I would have said the taxidermy snake things were tourist stuff, no offence meant. Thirdly VOO DOO is such a emotive word, a belief system that incorperates human needs for super natural help similar to all the world over. Lastly I have this picture and think I have some more somewhere?

[VANDOO]

YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN DOING A SEARCH ON (VOODOO MUSEUM) THERE ARE SEVERAL SITES SOME WITH DECENT INFORMATION AND SOME NOT, ON THE VOODOO MUSEUM IN NEW ORLEANS LOUSIANA. I VISITED THERE QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO AND WENT TO THE TOMB OF MARIE LAVEAU JUST AS A TOURIST NOT A BELIEVER BUT THE STORIES OF VOODOO AND OF MARIE ARE VERY INTERESTING.

[stekemest]

Very interesting stuff by you guys, thank you for it.
Do you know what "Bochio" were used for?

[Freddy]

I think you mean 'BOCIO'

I have a book called 'Soul of Africa - magic of a continent' in which the meaning and use of 'bocio' is explained. I tried to translate what is said about 'bocio' (I hope I didn't make too many mistakes )

Bocio are found among the Fon in Southern Benin. They are part of the Vodun religion.

The word 'bocio' is formed from two words : 'bo' meaning power and 'cio' meaning corps or cadaver. Together it means power which is transferred to an figurative image (a statue) or any other vessel (e.g. a bottle).

A 'bocio' can be used for good and evil.

The Fon believe in Vodun, secret powers which control everything and everyone in the world. Their forces inhabit 'guardian statues' (bocio) who help people, give life force and can make changes
The 'bocio' are not symbols or portraits of gods (vodun). But they are closely related (connected) to them and form places where the 'force' is concentrated.

When in need, people turn to 'bocio' to ask for help or healing. They are also the ones to call upon in order to fullfil one's material demands. In this way they contribute to solving numerous problems and are objects of hope.
They can be compared to saints in the European rural communities.

I hope this helps

Freddy

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by David

Thanks for the link Ben. Unfortunately my understanding here is limited since i do not speak Dutch. However, i seriously doubt that i need to take a trip to The Netherlands to get a better understanding of Vodou. I have been studying this religion and it's drum rhythms for more than 20 years now and have actually participated in ceremonies as a ritual drummer.
What picture of dolls in this exhibit do you believe is a "Voodoo doll" meant to gain control over another human being? I do see some ancestor effigies in the mix. Yes, there are objects in the practice that you might refer to as dolls, but i do not think you fully understand what their use and purpose are.

I do David but there is maybe more than you know some people are in some thing for 30 years and can learn from other .


Take my word there are voodoo puppets or dolls on the black side off the voodoo for sure maybe you only know the white side.

Ben

[stekemest]

Freddy,
Thank you very much.

[David]

Originally Posted by Dajak

I do David but there is maybe more than you know some people are in some thing for 30 years and can learn from other .


Take my word there are voodoo puppets or dolls on the black side off the voodoo for sure maybe you only know the white side.

Ben

Yes Ben, we all can always learn something new.
There is no "black" or "white" side of Vodou. There is just Vodou. Those who practice black magic in Haiti are referred to as bokkor. These are not priests of the Lwa. They may surround themselves with many of the same trappings as Vodou, but what they practice is the furthest thing from it.

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by David

Yes Ben, we all can always learn something new.
There is no "black" or "white" side of Vodou. There is just Vodou. Those who practice black magic in Haiti are referred to as bokkor. These are not priests of the Lwa. They may surround themselves with many of the same trappings as Vodou, but what they practice is the furthest thing from it.

Hi David maybe not black voodoo in Haiti but it is not where the voodoo come from,
in Afrika a lot off black voodoo .

Ben

[Bill M]

There are plenty of "voodoo dolls" on eBay

If you want to know more about the religion, I strongly suggest Maya Deren's wonderful book, "The Divine Horsemen, The Living Gods of Haiti." Check it out on Google.

[David]

Originally Posted by Dajak

Hi David maybe not black voodoo in Haiti but it is not where the voodoo come from,
in Afrika a lot off black voodoo .

Ben

Ben, you are missing a key distinction in this discussion, that is between the religion that is Vodoun, and the black magick that might take place within the cultures that this religion exists. One of the main purposes of the Vodoun priest, whether in Haiti or Benin, is to protect his people from the black magick that is done within the community. This black magick is not Vodou. It is done outside of the religion. To say it is would be akin to saying that a pederast Catholic priest who is buggering an altar boy in the vestry after hours is somehow practicing Catholicism.
I am not arguing that sticking pins into an effigy doll to cause distress to another is not a perfectly viable and even effect form of black magick. I am not arguing that this isn't an age old practice which can be found around the world including Western European folk magic. What i am arguing is that such dolls should never be referred to as "Voodoo dolls". IMO Vodoun is one of the worlds great religions. To me, and the many friends and teachers that i have who are Vodoun initiates this is highly offensive.

[Dajak]

Originally Posted by David

Ben, you are missing a key distinction in this discussion, that is between the religion that is Vodoun, and the black magick that might take place within the cultures that this religion exists. One of the main purposes of the Vodoun priest, whether in Haiti or Benin, is to protect his people from the black magick that is done within the community. This black magick is not Vodou. It is done outside of the religion. To say it is would be akin to saying that a pederast Catholic priest who is buggering an altar boy in the vestry after hours is somehow practicing Catholicism.
I am not arguing that sticking pins into an effigy doll to cause distress to another is not a perfectly viable and even effect form of black magick. I am not arguing that this isn't an age old practice which can be found around the world including Western European folk magic. What i am arguing is that such dolls should never be referred to as "Voodoo dolls". IMO Vodoun is one of the worlds great religions. To me, and the many friends and teachers that i have who are Vodoun initiates this is highly offensive.

Hi david it looks to me that you missing a point .

Is there an voodoo dol or not .


Ben