I just couldn't wait!!!

Gavin Nugent · 10th November 2008, 01:18 PM

Just a quick update whilst I wait unsettled in my seat for this to arrive.
It has been a long night of international phone calls.
I have spoken further with my very helpful collector friend in Hong Kong via the net and when speaking of dates for this weapon I have discovered a communication breakdown that so often happens with language differences.
The Ching Long he referred to is not Qianlong but the Ching Dynasty. Dating from what was spoken of and what reference I have here would put this in my eyes at around 1850. I beleive he is looking for images from his end of the world to help too, I am very interested in viewing them should they surface.
I have attached a couple of pics of, although oldish, a far more modern martial arts set of pole arms to show where the dragon theme continued on. There is also a blade shape present in the photos that I remember seeing someone ask about a while back, it was at the time though of a Chinese but dismissed by another, if that thread is found, I think this may point to Chinese for it too.
I am also happy to say after speaking with both the auction house and the carrier there are no blade issues to be found upon this piece, sadly due to the size of the object it is still another week away

regards

Gav

Valjhun · 12th November 2008, 11:42 AM

Tatarattatataaaaa

I've just found the guy who possesed it... Who is he?

Klas Larsson · 12th November 2008, 01:31 PM

That is general Kuan (Gwan) mention above, also known as Kuan Ti (Guan Di) the God of War, and a protector deity, for homes, temples and other buildings. Can sometimes be seen sittings on a horse on roof tiles. Saw some real nice ones from Tang era at an exhibition a wile a go, see if I can find pictures. He is also a character in the old novels "Three Kingdoms", and a historical character.

About the hefty size, Peter Dekker wrote something on Yan Yue dao in the Qing military, and told they had very heavy ones for martial practice, quoting the military regulations books of Qing. Can not recall where he wrote this, maybe his website? Its at http://www.mandarinmansion.com/

Not saying this is one of those military examples, but it could still be a practice dao, as some of you already pointed out, its way to heavy for fighting, but can well build strength and develop correct body usage in martial practice.

And congratulations, this is really something extra!

Klas Larsson · 15th November 2008, 01:56 AM

Here are some really nice pictures of Yan Yue Dao, on Tomas Chens always usefull website http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo4.html

Gavin Nugent · 15th November 2008, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the kind words and for supplying the link Klas, I too was recently looking at it and they are all choice examples shown. One pictured has a similar blade configuration, the third last one it is, I particuarly like the suspended tassle shown.
Thanks too for coming in and covering off General Kwan, it was an interesting representation of him Valjhun bought forth.
Thanks for keeping this thread going with your interest too guys. Josh, if anything further has come to light I would love to hear it.
I should have new images in a fews days as I have been tracking the package and I should receive it Monday Aussie time.

regards

Gav

Gonzalo G · 16th November 2008, 07:53 AM

!Congratulations, Gav! A VERY interesting piece. Do you think it´s an offering item to the temple? Or a weapon designed to be used, no matter it was offered? There were some heavy fighting weapons on the chinese arsenal. Usually associated with the presence of heavy armour.
Regards

Gonzalo

Gavin Nugent · 16th November 2008, 08:21 AM

G'day Gonzalo, thanks for popping in on this thread.

Without having the piece in my hand yet, I still believe it is a weapon of massive proportions but was used within a temple of some description, maybe for ceremony, maybe for protection... I have yet been unable to reveal this.

There was reference made by the packers and senders when I spoke to them, that the shaft, although it appears to be timber to me when looking through the dragons mouth, they indicated that it is as hard as iron and almost had a metallic ring to it when struck, this alone may point further to a more practical nature. What I can see within the blades structure points to me that it is a weapon and the design of the dragon and the inlay on the blade all point to the makeup of something that would be used and found within a temple, one that could well be called upon within it's home to serve as devastating weapon.
Again, only my thoughts. I know there are some out there who would be considered much more versed in the subject and I look forward to hearing from them if they stumble across this thread. Given the time, I will make contact via websites to experts to see if the mystery can be revealed.
What are your views on this one Gonzalo?
I continue to welcome all comments from anyone interested, speculation or otherwise can all help unravel a mystery.

thanks

Gav

10th November 2008, 01:18 PM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	An update Just a quick update whilst I wait unsettled in my seat for this to arrive. It has been a long night of international phone calls. I have spoken further with my very helpful collector friend in Hong Kong via the net and when speaking of dates for this weapon I have discovered a communication breakdown that so often happens with language differences. The Ching Long he referred to is not Qianlong but the Ching Dynasty. Dating from what was spoken of and what reference I have here would put this in my eyes at around 1850. I beleive he is looking for images from his end of the world to help too, I am very interested in viewing them should they surface. I have attached a couple of pics of, although oldish, a far more modern martial arts set of pole arms to show where the dragon theme continued on. There is also a blade shape present in the photos that I remember seeing someone ask about a while back, it was at the time though of a Chinese but dismissed by another, if that thread is found, I think this may point to Chinese for it too. I am also happy to say after speaking with both the auction house and the carrier there are no blade issues to be found upon this piece, sadly due to the size of the object it is still another week away regards Gav Attached Images

12th November 2008, 11:42 AM	#2
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Tatarattatataaaaa I've just found the guy who possesed it... Who is he? Attached Images

15th November 2008, 01:59 PM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Klas Thanks for the kind words and for supplying the link Klas, I too was recently looking at it and they are all choice examples shown. One pictured has a similar blade configuration, the third last one it is, I particuarly like the suspended tassle shown. Thanks too for coming in and covering off General Kwan, it was an interesting representation of him Valjhun bought forth. Thanks for keeping this thread going with your interest too guys. Josh, if anything further has come to light I would love to hear it. I should have new images in a fews days as I have been tracking the package and I should receive it Monday Aussie time. regards Gav

16th November 2008, 08:21 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Only an opinion G'day Gonzalo, thanks for popping in on this thread. Without having the piece in my hand yet, I still believe it is a weapon of massive proportions but was used within a temple of some description, maybe for ceremony, maybe for protection... I have yet been unable to reveal this. There was reference made by the packers and senders when I spoke to them, that the shaft, although it appears to be timber to me when looking through the dragons mouth, they indicated that it is as hard as iron and almost had a metallic ring to it when struck, this alone may point further to a more practical nature. What I can see within the blades structure points to me that it is a weapon and the design of the dragon and the inlay on the blade all point to the makeup of something that would be used and found within a temple, one that could well be called upon within it's home to serve as devastating weapon. Again, only my thoughts. I know there are some out there who would be considered much more versed in the subject and I look forward to hearing from them if they stumble across this thread. Given the time, I will make contact via websites to experts to see if the mystery can be revealed. What are your views on this one Gonzalo? I continue to welcome all comments from anyone interested, speculation or otherwise can all help unravel a mystery. thanks Gav

12th November 2008, 01:31 PM	#3
Klas Larsson Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23	That is general Kuan (Gwan) mention above, also known as Kuan Ti (Guan Di) the God of War, and a protector deity, for homes, temples and other buildings. Can sometimes be seen sittings on a horse on roof tiles. Saw some real nice ones from Tang era at an exhibition a wile a go, see if I can find pictures. He is also a character in the old novels "Three Kingdoms", and a historical character. About the hefty size, Peter Dekker wrote something on Yan Yue dao in the Qing military, and told they had very heavy ones for martial practice, quoting the military regulations books of Qing. Can not recall where he wrote this, maybe his website? Its at http://www.mandarinmansion.com/ Not saying this is one of those military examples, but it could still be a practice dao, as some of you already pointed out, its way to heavy for fighting, but can well build strength and develop correct body usage in martial practice. And congratulations, this is really something extra!

15th November 2008, 01:56 AM	#4
Klas Larsson Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 23	Here are some really nice pictures of Yan Yue Dao, on Tomas Chens always usefull website http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo4.html

16th November 2008, 07:53 AM	#6
Gonzalo G Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Nothern Mexico Posts: 458	!Congratulations, Gav! A VERY interesting piece. Do you think it´s an offering item to the temple? Or a weapon designed to be used, no matter it was offered? There were some heavy fighting weapons on the chinese arsenal. Usually associated with the presence of heavy armour. Regards Gonzalo