WHAT DO YOU WANT TO KNOW? PROOF/CONTROL MARKS

[kahnjar1]

I do not have a great knowledge of sword proof, but I do know that the actual proof stamp itself does not necessarily give guide to the maker or origin . If you can get a pic of the cypher on the hilt, and any further cyphers on the blade, you SHOULD be able to at least arrive at country of origin and maybe even the cutler (maker).
Regards Stu

[Bill M]

How about my howdah pistol. Double barrel about .70 bore, percussion. Gun shop guy said, "Belgium - 1835 to 1855."

[kahnjar1]

Hi Bill,
Marks are Belgian Proofs as follows:
The oval ELG in use from 1810 and was the SOLE MARK until 1853.
The EL intertwined was introduced 1852.
The numbers, 18 and 17.2 are the bore size in millimeters. Introduced 1810 and until 1894 graduated in 0.2mm graduations. After that date in 0.1mm graduations.
So from the above, your pistol is likely post 1853 and probably pre 1895.
Not quite what the guy in the shop said, but the marks tell the story.
Nice piece by the way!
Regards Stuart

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi Bill,
Marks are Belgian Proofs as follows:
The oval ELG in use from 1810 and was the SOLE MARK until 1853.
The EL intertwined was introduced 1852.
The numbers, 18 and 17.2 are the bore size in millimeters. Introduced 1810 and until 1894 graduated in 0.2mm graduations. After that date in 0.1mm graduations.
So from the above, your pistol is likely post 1853 and probably pre 1895.
Not quite what the guy in the shop said, but the marks tell the story.
Nice piece by the way!
Regards Stuart

Wow Stuart! Thank you so much!

Great info! So could be anywhere between 1853 and 1894! I'll call it at 1853 1/2!

So one barrel is 18 mm and the other is 17.2 mm? Don't think that I would care to fire it with projectiles, but might try BP and wads.

I have heard conflicting comments about the strength of Damascus barrels. I know they were designed for BP, but some people say that over the years, cleaning fluids and residue get into the Damascus (mainly on the inside of the barrels) and can substantially weaken the walls.

Yet other people say this does not happen. Anyone have an opinion?

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Wow Stuart! Thank you so much!

Great info! So could be anywhere between 1853 and 1894! I'll call it at 1853 1/2!

So one barrel is 18 mm and the other is 17.2 mm? Don't think that I would care to fire it with projectiles, but might try BP and wads.

I have heard conflicting comments about the strength of Damascus barrels. I know they were designed for BP, but some people say that over the years, cleaning fluids and residue get into the Damascus (mainly on the inside of the barrels) and can substantially weaken the walls.

Yet other people say this does not happen. Anyone have an opinion?

Hi again Bill,
Yes, according to the marks, the barrels are of slightly different bore. Regarding interior of damascus barrels. The most usual corrosive agent was black powder residue. OK before fired but when fired the powder residue attracts moisture and creates a real mess if left over time.
If you wanted to fire the pistol, check the inside of the bores with a borelight, after having scrubbed it with a bronze brush. ALSO CHECK THAT IT IS NOT LOADED ALREADY. Some years ago a friend of mine shot his TV with an old muzzleloader which still had a charge in it! The way to check is to put the ramrod down the barrel and compare the depth with the outside. The rod SHOULD measure right back to the nipple. If it does not, then draw the old charge with some sort of long corkscrew if you don't have the proper tool.
Regards Stu

[celtan]

Hi Stu,

Alternatively,

Place a ball-filling air needle (the ones used for basketballs etc) attached to a high volume air-pump, insert it through the barrel vent, and blast away. That also helps in the case of stuck, unfired projectiles.

Best

M

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Hi again Bill,
...ALSO CHECK THAT IT IS NOT LOADED ALREADY. Some years ago a friend of mine shot his TV with an old muzzleloader which still had a charge in it! The way to check is to put the ramrod down the barrel and compare the depth with the outside. The rod SHOULD measure right back to the nipple. If it does not, then draw the old charge with some sort of long corkscrew if you don't have the proper tool.
Regards Stu

[Bill M]

Thank you Stu and M,

I did check to be sure the gun is not loaded by running a de-rusting solution down the barrels. They were not mounted at the time. the solution came out the nipples.

I have a little familiarity with cleaning and staining sword blades. Mostly Indonesian and Philippine.

I have used Vinegar, PCB (Radio Shack Circuit Board Etchant) and am about to try a form of arsenic called, in Indonesia, warangan.

But, I think that gun barrel Damascus is different... What would you suggest as a stain and staining process for Damascus gun barrels?

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by celtan

Hi Stu,

Alternatively,

Place a ball-filling air needle (the ones used for basketballs etc) attached to a high volume air-pump, insert it through the barrel vent, and blast away. That also helps in the case of stuck, unfired projectiles.

Best

M

Hi Manuel,
Yes you have a British sword. Queen Victoria's Cypher. Can't tell you who maker is from Proof stamp but is there a name on the other side near hilt?
Regards Stu

[celtan]

Found other pics, seems to be Victorian British

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I do not have a great knowledge of sword proof, but I do know that the actual proof stamp itself does not necessarily give guide to the maker or origin . If you can get a pic of the cypher on the hilt, and any further cyphers on the blade, you SHOULD be able to at least arrive at country of origin and maybe even the cutler (maker).
Regards Stu