The Flyssa

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The subject on Celtic influence in North Africa seems to be best considered as indirect diffusion. While the Celtic culture was clearly widespread over considerable ancient periods, it permeated many developing cultures, with its influences remaining as fiber in all of them. I was thinking, I myself carry Celtic influence, as clearly my surname reflects Scottish ancestry, and as often the case in American people, my geneology reflects Germanic and other influences, all Indo-European, as well. In this sense, Celtic influence did exist in North African culture. I think the link that David posted showed it well, reflecting linguistic associations between Berber language and Gaelic.

Rather than progressive line of development, which of course we know does not exist presently in archaeological evidence, I believe there has been often in many cultures, a reaching for tradition in weaponry, which in many cases might best be considered sought in iconographical sources. Possibly this might explain the adoption of certain distinct features on weapons that have appeared with ancient appearance in relatively modern times. I believe there are a number of examples that reflect this possibility such as the shotel, and others such as the yataghan, therefore indirectly....the flyssa.

All best regards,
Jim

Jim, can I point that North Africa was the source of a much more ancient and developed culture than the celtan (the egyptian)? And also, that North Africa continued, thorught the hellenism, and latter throught the romanization, being a great culture? That when the celts were being assimilated to the roman-hipanian society, in the Alexandria Library the scientists were calculating with great precision the diameter of the earth, elaborating the heliocentric theory of the solar system and demostrating the roundness of the earth? I think there are lingüistic coincidencies trought all over the world, as with the sanscrit and the greek and in the other side the mayan, but no proof of intercourses among the mayan and the others. I know how many speculative theories have been elaborated in this respect. I must agree that the mediterranean basin was a great caouldron on great intercourses, but all time the influences are seen as comming from Europe, and this is not true. And even in the european Middle Age, there seem to be a more advanced culture in North Africa than in Europe. Plato, Aristotle and great part of the classic culture was preserved in Norh Africa when the barbarians destroyed it, almost obliterated it completely, in Europe. And they only recuperated it throught the arabs. I also think there is a clear evidence of a more advanced metallurgy in the islamic world, and thus of swordmaking, than in Europe. We need to make a comparative history lines, and see material evidence of such connections (archaeologycal and historical), to establish connections and influences among edged weapons, which I do not doubt they exist, but in a manner different as we have always supposed. And there are also, parallel invention and discoveries.

[Jim McDougall]

Very well put Gonzalo, and it is well that the dreary Euro-Centric 'Hamitic Hypothesis' and 'Dark Continent' images of African civilizations (as described by Basil Davidson in "Africa in History", 1966, p.11) have been substantially put to rest, and it is true of course that while Europe muddled through the Dark Ages, civilization in North Africa shone brightly.

Mostly what I was referring to in reference to 'iconographic' influence concerned the stylistic appearance of weapon forms in accord with images of clearly ancient examples. In looking at distinct forms such as the shotel, the kukri, the sapara and others that seem reflected in a number of ethnographic weapon forms that appear to have sprung up relatively recently in ethnic regions, to me suggests that they have been produced to recall proudly ancient tradition.

With respect to weapons that recall earlier traditions, but far more pragmatically, such as the takouba and kaskara, these certainly carry a degree of influence from the hilts of earlier swords from the Crusades period. However, thier development in volume as indiginous weapons was primarily a result of the influx of trade blades into those trade networks throughout North Africa. Therefore these swords developed more from known and actual weapons from those periods than from possibly iconographic images.

There can be no doubt that metallurgically, Islamic swordsmiths were far advanced and possibly a certain degree of their expertise may have entered European blademaking technology. One key to their expertise however, seems to have been primarily associated with the steel from the Indian Subcontinent known as wootz. While these cakes of premier quality steel was certainly exported to many places, the methods of forging it were held secret by Persian and Damascus smiths. There is considerable speculation that in some degree at least some part of their methods were incorporated into European methods, but as far as is known, the famed 'watered steel' was never entirely duplicated in the 'west' (that is until modern versions at least).

During these times in Europe, there was also fine steel found in the regions in the Rhineland, now Solingen; as well as Passau, to the Romans, Noricum.
The Franks were known for thier fine sword blades, and supplied most of Europe into the North, even at times, supplying Islamic armourers. There were high quality blades being forged in the Iberian peninsula as well, with the Celitibereans, and the quality was certainly greatly enhanced by the influence of the Moors and thier metallurgic technology, as previously noted.

It is interesting anthropologically how cultural and ethnographic groups can move over extended time to distant geographic regions, and as various conditions dictate, sometimes return much later to the same regions they left. In this phenomenon they have obviously changed dramatically and assimilated other cultures and groups into thiers and as they enter the now also very much changed former regions, diffusion convenes once again.
This is basically how my reference to Celtic influence in North Africa was intended, in most subtle degree. My inference was regarding the possible adoption of weapon forms by imitating earlier styles as described from possibly iconographic sources.....again noting the absence of progressive line of development shown archaeologically or from provenanced sources.

All best regards,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Very nicely stated, Jim, I agree. Tough I think the takouba and kaskara are related more to the early islamic swords than other models. About the wootz: I am reading the Al-Kindi treatise "On Swords an their Kinds". He mentions, interestingly, the Yemen as an impotant center of production of swords, using either their own wootz, or an imported one from Sri Lanka. There were documented commercial connections among the Yemen and East Central Africa. I think we can reconstruct, slowly, the commercial network in the Middle Ages and before. Al-Kindi also wrotte about other places were wootz and swords were produced, on India, Iraq, and Bukhara, and some routes of trade for the wootz cakes. Interestigly, not a mention of wootz production on Persia, but forging centers in many places. Seems like Damascus production was alreay on decay on those times (9th Century).

Whenever you want to park here, family and books included, you are very well welcomed.
My best regards

Gonzalo

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Gonzalo. You're right, the Islamic broadswords were at the root of broadsword development in the Sudan, and the European styles later served as developing indiginous forms as trade increased. I have not read Al-Kindi, only material cited from him in various references, particularly Elgood. The Yemen was indeed once an important center as you note, but the wootz was imported and it seems quite likely the earlier source was from Sri-Lanka, well visited by Arab trade. Persia did not produce wootz as I understand, but thier advanced forging methods with this excellent steel produced the blades that became nearly legendary.
By the 9th c. I believe Tamarlene had moved most of the smiths to his own Samarkand, and Damascus had become primarily a trade center where these high quality blades diffused far and wide.

All very best regards, and thank you again,
Jim

[Gonzalo G]

Well, Al-Kindi does mention that the Yemen had wootz production in his time. And he does not mention other places where it was produced in latter times on India, according with the indian sources. So I still can´t find conclusive evidence that Persia did not produced wootz, apart from circunstancial evidence. It seems that there have been some changes in the geographical distribution of wootz production. I suspect that even some places related with this production, were only ports or markets from which wootz was concentrated and traded to other places on the Orient.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Gonzalo G]

Jim, please empty your mail box. I couldn´t send you a message.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice brain storming guys.

Here is a blog from the Pitt Rivers Museum.


The flissa or flyssa is the distinctive weapon of the Kabyle Berber people of Algeria. Since they vary in length they are sometimes classed as swords, sometimes as knives. Unlike many North African swords which are fitted with European blades, the flissa blade is without exception of local manufacture.

Such weapons were used to break open chain mail, which was still worn in this part of the world until the 19th century. The blade is single-edged for cutting but also has a tapering point for stabbing. This typical example has an octagonal grip, animal head pommel and decoratively incised blade.

Sacred Weapons
The unusual concave section along the flissa’s cutting edge has drawn much attention from art historians. Some have argued that this shape shows the particular ancestry of the flissa, which they believe copies the shape of concave-bladed Ancient Greek swords called machaira, such as those used by the armies of Alexander the Great. It doesn’t seem impossible that this form of sword could have been brought to Algeria by the Carthaginians, who were themselves of Phoenician origin. In saying this, it should also be noted that the flissa hilt is similar to that of Arabian-Persian-Indian shamshir swords so it is not beyond doubt that it had it’s origins further east.

As well as the blade shape, the species of animal depicted on the flissa hilts has also created much academic speculation. Some scholars have argued that the species of the animal is unimportant; what is important is that their eyes are always exaggerated in size. Both the animal-headed pommel and the brass-inlaid geometric decoration on the hilt and blade, have magical power. All of the decoration on the sword serves to protect the wielder against the Evil Eye.

The Evil Eye is a major concern for Berber and Islamic North Africans alike. It is believed that the first jealous glance of another person, cast on someone or their possessions, is dangerous to them and will bring them misfortune. Such decoration is applied to many manufactured objects in the region. The general idea behind such decoration is to depict something repulsive, pointed, or an eye or hand, with which one can repel, pierce or deflect the Evil Eye. For example, the individual triangular motifs on the back of this sword’s blade represent clothes pins (fibulae), which are understood to pierce the Evil Eye, while the zigzag line motifs represent a snake, which then drives it away. The glare from one eye is believed to repel that of another so the animal-headed pommel has been cast here with large eyes.