The chhatri or umbrella

[bhushan_lawate]

Hi all,

Quite an interesting topic.

The Hindus have been using the umbrella as a royal symbol and it is also associated with religious customs since time immemorial.

However little or no account exists as to whether it was also used as an auspicious symbol on weapons belonging to Hindus.

I do no believe that it was unauspicous for kings to see their reflection in a bright sword blade; I'm open to change my opinion though because of the following known piece of history.

Shah Jahan had a noble man called Udaram Deshmukh who was known for two things:
1. His fierce valor and gallantry
2. He was very ugly.

Once Shah Jahan wanted to tease him in his court and ordered for a hand held mirror. Saw his reflection in the mirror and passed it on to his courtiers to do the same.
The mirror was passed in the ranks of the courtiers and soon everyone reliazed the emperor's plans of mocking at Udaram.
Everyones interest had peaked as to how Udaram escapes mockery or is at the receiving end of the emperor's trick.
The moment the mirror was presented in front of Udaram, he, without looking at it put the mirror upside down and unsheathed his sword, saw his face and passed the mirror on.
Everyone was dumbstuck as this was a great insult to the emperor. However before anyone could react Udaram uttered "Mirrors are for ladies to see their refelection, for men should see it in their dazzling sword blades"
The emperor was greatly pleased by the brilliant and intelligent gesture of Udaram and gifted him his personal bejewelled Katar (punch Dagger) Which till date can be seen in the personal collection of the descendants of Udaram Deshmukh.

As far as the umberella is concerned we need to dig in deeper details and research before concluding anything.

Regards,
Bhushan

[Jens Nordlunde]

Originally Posted by bhushan_lawate

Hi all,

As far as the umberella is concerned we need to dig in deeper details and research before concluding anything.

Regards,
Bhushan

Hi Bhushan,

You are quite right, that a deeper research about the meaning of the umbrella has to be made. Unfortunately a big part of the knowledge is likely to be hidden in some palm leaf books, not yet translated – or do you, or someone else, have more information’s?

Interesting history about Udaram, but I doubt that anyone would have be allowed to draw his sword in the present of Shah Jahan.

[Jim McDougall]

Probably not of much significance, but came across a reference on some ancient coins from Israel. These are bronze 'prutah' minted during the reign of Agrippa I (37-44AD), and carried the umbrella (more of a 'canopy' or parasol) on one side, and it is noted 'symbol of royalty'...the other side three ears of barley. Just thought the royal symbolism interesting, as well as the not often thought of contact in these early times between Israel and India.

[rand]

Shah Jahans dagger, he ruled 1628-1657, the dagger dates to 1629-1630 and has the umbrella displayed. Of interest there are two shades of gold inlay for contrast, that is not often seen of Islamic work.

rand

[Jens Nordlunde]

Jim, it is an interesting observation you have made, and one, which belongs to this thread, the very old trade routes taken into consideration.

Rand, thank you for showing the dagger. It is true that different kinds of gold seldom were used in a weapon.

At the exhibition in Copenhagen 1982 a sword with an umbrella was shown. It had been taken from an eunuch after a battle, so it seems as if not all swords marked with umbrellas were used by royals, but from the way it looked, it must have belonged to a royal.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you Jens! It seems when trying to learn more on the more esoteric properties of historic weapons whether in decoration, markings or features, the trade routes are invariably the deeper fiber of the fabric

"Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen,
and thinking what nobody has thought"
-Albert von Szent-Gyorgy

[rand]

This dagger with umbbrella is exhibited in "Splendeurs des Arns Orientales", page 93 and dates 1620-1630. In its description it is labeled as having a gold imperial umbrella mark.

Of interest it further states that it is inscribed "Sahibqiran-i Thani", which tells us it belonged to Shah Jahan, who known throughout his life as "Second Lord of the Conjunction", the first having been his forebearer.

Is interesting that this is an example of a metaphor being using to determine ownership, as particularly farsi was spoken more as poem the use of metaphors was commen and a compilation of these would become most useful to someone looking for clues for ownership. Mention farsi because of its use in the Mughal court.

Unfortunately there is no reference for why the umbrella is an imperial mark.

rand

[Mytribalworld]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Bhushan,

You are quite right, that a deeper research about the meaning of the umbrella has to be made. Unfortunately a big part of the knowledge is likely to be hidden in some palm leaf books, not yet translated – or do you, or someone else, have more information’s?

Interesting history about Udaram, but I doubt that anyone would have be allowed to draw his sword in the present of Shah Jahan.

Hi Jens,

The Ngadju dayak culture in south Borneo got also influence from the Hindus.
The umbrella (payong) plays an important role in all rituall there
The umbrella is indentical with the tree of life.
Maybe because of his protectional task ( I don't know for sure why)
But the tree of life is also often presented as a spear.
If we seen that in one line it looks like there's a connection between the umbrella-tree of life-weaponery.

Maybe because the weapons brings death while the tree of life is the source of new life ? ( in a headhunting culture the death is the start of a new life)

I realize that these cultures are far away from eachother but maybe it helps to find answers about the use of the umbrella on swordblades.


I'm interested about the use of the "eye motif" on swords from India.
Is this because of the " evel eye believe?"


friendly regards,

Arjan.

[Gonzalo G]

The eye motif is common on the sacrificial swords, and it represents the godess Durga, presiding over the sacrifices.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Jens Nordlunde]

Hi Rand,

Interesting knife you show, an umbrella looking like this, is also on the kard made of meteoric iron – if I am not mistaken. Weapons with the umbrella mark are, I think, mostly thought of being used only by the royals. I have however seen a sword, which could have belonged at a royal, but to which was attached a metal label, stating, “Taken from a eunuch of the king of Oudh at the capture of the Imambara [March 14th 1858], by Col. Annesley, COMDG. 10th Regt.”

So it seems as if others than the royals could use these weapons, or maybe the eunuch was a lifeguard, and that was the reason why he fought with a sword marked with an umbrella.

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life.

Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life?

Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’.

Jens

[Gonzalo G]

Jens, are there many non sacrificial swords with the eye inscription?

I think there are more deep and complex meanings on the imagery used over the war weapons. You can find a very interesting discussion related to the subject of the eye inscription over the blades of the swords in this thread:

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=79432

Also, there are references to bibliographical analysis in relation to this subject.
Regards

Gonzalo

[Mytribalworld]

Hi Arjan,

Thank you for joining. In the very early days the Hindu’s had colonies on many of the islands in the area; they are even said to have had a colony in China, so there must have been a strong Hindu influence. It is interesting what you write about the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life, as it is the first time I have heard this. I have earlier read about a connection between the tree of life end the kundalini flame, but only in one or two places. The mid rib on katars is sometimes made like a slim tree, mostly said to be cypress, but I have also seen it described like the tree of life.

Where did you find the connection between the umbrella and the tree of life?

Yes I think the ‘eye motif’, was used for protection against ‘the evil eye’.

Jens[/QUOTE]


Hi Jens,

The connection between umbrella and tree of life is often mentioned in " Ngaju Religion- the conception of god among a South Borneo People" by Dr,H.Scharer -The Hague 1963

he writes:-"The umbrella is indentical with the tree of life.Its not only to be found here but plays important role in every transition ceremony ( when passing from one to another status) A baby is carried under an umbrella for its ritual bath in the river,an umbrella is opened above a bridal pair,a skull is placed under an umbrella on the skull rack and also the umbrella palys a very important role at a funeral and at the mortuary ceremony.-" pag 70.

The use of the umbrella is part of a complex mix of symbols used to represent the upperworld and underworld.

Arjan.

[Jens Nordlunde]

Gonezalo, good post, and I agree that it is, at best, a very complex subject to discus.

The link you give is a good one, and it makes me wonder why/how such a connection started and was kept, between Nepal and Bengal – far apart, but still very close, which is most interesting.

I don’t believe that all koras with the ‘eye’ were used for sacrifice, but my knowledge on kores is not very big, so I better not start a discussion on this subject. However the ‘eye’ was used in several other ways, on stupas, on boats and so, so I believe that it was used fairly widely, and maybe had more than one meaning.

Arjan, thank you for the title and the quote. It is, like I said, the first time I have seen the umbrella and the tree of life connected, but if they are connected, like the author says, this gives the subject a new dimension. Besides, I think the knowledge most of us have on this subject lacks a lot of knowledge and understanding – which is hard to find/get, unless you look very hard for it.

Jens

[ksbhati]

Hi !

Standard Marks of Royalty were the Chattar or the Umbrella, Chanwar or the Yaks Tail fly wisk, Nishan or the standards and Banners, Nagara or the Royal Drums.

I think one would be correct in presuming that pieces with the Umbrella or Chattar are royal pieces (provided they are old of course as imitations are not infrequent).

Just my two bits...

[Gonzalo G]

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

The link you give is a good one, and it makes me wonder why/how such a connection started and was kept, between Nepal and Bengal – far apart, but still very close, which is most interesting.

I don’t believe that all koras with the ‘eye’ were used for sacrifice, but my knowledge on kores is not very big, so I better not start a discussion on this subject. However the ‘eye’ was used in several other ways, on stupas, on boats and so, so I believe that it was used fairly widely, and maybe had more than one meaning.

Jens, I just only wanted to explore one line of connection and explanation among the use of the eye, and it´s relation with hinduism. This, in response on the last two lines in black in the post from Mandaukudi. I would not point for certain, a relation among Bengal and Nepal, and neither about the sacrificial meaning of the eye over every sword blade. There are other lines to explore, but I´m afraid that many sources are written in oriental languajes.
Regards

Gonzalo