Sundang, moro kris or whatelse?

Rick · 28th September 2008, 04:48 PM

Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

Flavio · 28th September 2008, 06:14 PM

Hi Rick,

I have this other kris with something similar, but since the blade is etched in a more "moro traditional way" it is less visible

The horn handle seems also old, but maybe, as Jose says, put togheter with the pommel.... It is entirely unusual to see something like this on a moro kris.... or not?

Battara · 28th September 2008, 10:34 PM

Not seen a horn hilt with ivory pommel before like this, but I also have not seen everything.

josh stout · 29th September 2008, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

Is that the same as a "lap weld"?

I have seen a few on Chinese pieces.
Josh

Amuk Murugul · 29th September 2008, 04:12 AM

Hullo everybody,

From the photos posted, my impression is that of a Peninsular Sundang with Maguindanao origin/influence. I have seen similar etching. Pommel can be one piece with the hilt (gilded or not), if made of ebony/horn, or a separate piece of ivory. The cockatoo shape is usually more stylised (smooth). Sometimes, a cup is used instead of a ferrule. Unusual to retain the stirrup.

All the best

Newsteel · 29th September 2008, 04:52 AM

I do not have much knowledge about sundang but would agree with Amuk Murugul. This sundang looks Malay to me or possible Riau.

PenangsangII · 29th September 2008, 05:30 AM

I agree with Newsteel - the ricikan looks very Malay to me. In my opinion, it could be peninsular judging from the nyepuhan style.....and the kembang kacang

Flavio · 29th September 2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I agree with Newsteel - the ricikan looks very Malay to me. In my opinion, it could be peninsular judging from the nyepuhan style.....and the kembang kacang

Newsteel,

sorry for my ignorance, but what is the nyepuhan style and the kembang kacan?

Thank you so much

Flavio

Amuk Murugul · 29th September 2008, 11:52 PM

Hullo everybody,

The scabbard suggests Riau-Lingga.

Best.

David · 30th September 2008, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

I agree with Newsteel - the ricikan looks very Malay to me. In my opinion, it could be peninsular judging from the nyepuhan style.....and the kembang kacang

Nice word "nyepuhan". I believe it refers to the temper mark left by quenching. I don't really see such a mark in the first kris shown here. Are you referring to this lastest kris Flavio posted? The mark is clear there, but that is not the kris which is under discussion.
I really don't know what can possibly be judged from the "kembang kacang" in this case as it is far too eroded to make a call on.
I have also seen this style of scabbard with Sulu kris.
I don't see anything here that would clearly indicate a peninsula origin.

Rick · 30th September 2008, 04:02 PM

I'm still wondering if that's a scarf, or lap weld on the original blade .

Could we see the other side please ?

I don't recall, in my own experience, ever seeing a scarf weld on a sundang blade .

Flavio · 30th September 2008, 06:30 PM

David,

You say you can't see anything that indicate a peninsula origin, but how do you explain the strangeness of this kris? like the non-moro etching and the horn handle? I ask just to know

Regards
Flavio

28th September 2008, 06:14 PM	#2
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	Hi Rick, I have this other kris with something similar, but since the blade is etched in a more "moro traditional way" it is less visible The horn handle seems also old, but maybe, as Jose says, put togheter with the pommel.... It is entirely unusual to see something like this on a moro kris.... or not? Attached Images

28th September 2008, 04:48 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Photo six shows what looks almost like a scarf weld ?

28th September 2008, 10:34 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Not seen a horn hilt with ivory pommel before like this, but I also have not seen everything.

29th September 2008, 04:12 AM	#5
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 473	Hullo everybody, From the photos posted, my impression is that of a Peninsular Sundang with Maguindanao origin/influence. I have seen similar etching. Pommel can be one piece with the hilt (gilded or not), if made of ebony/horn, or a separate piece of ivory. The cockatoo shape is usually more stylised (smooth). Sometimes, a cup is used instead of a ferrule. Unusual to retain the stirrup. All the best

29th September 2008, 04:52 AM	#6
Newsteel Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 132	I do not have much knowledge about sundang but would agree with Amuk Murugul. This sundang looks Malay to me or possible Riau.

29th September 2008, 05:30 AM	#7
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I agree with Newsteel - the ricikan looks very Malay to me. In my opinion, it could be peninsular judging from the nyepuhan style.....and the kembang kacang

29th September 2008, 11:52 PM	#9
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 473	Hullo everybody, The scabbard suggests Riau-Lingga. Best.

30th September 2008, 04:02 PM	#11
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I'm still wondering if that's a scarf, or lap weld on the original blade . Could we see the other side please ? I don't recall, in my own experience, ever seeing a scarf weld on a sundang blade .

30th September 2008, 06:30 PM	#12
Flavio Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Italia Posts: 1,243	David, You say you can't see anything that indicate a peninsula origin, but how do you explain the strangeness of this kris? like the non-moro etching and the horn handle? I ask just to know Regards Flavio