Sword from Lombok -- comments please

nechesh · 8th April 2005, 08:00 PM

Tom makes a good point about the joining of the hilt and blade being perhaps a bigger problem than the tang when fighting with a keris. I have heard that in some places pitch was used for a more secure hold on the blade when a keris was to possiblly be used in fighting. I have not been able to comfirm this though. I did once receive a Bali keris in this condition, though it is impossible to know exactly when and by whom this attachment was made. Tom is also correct that there is a big difference between slashing and chopping. However, given the traditional manner of grasping the weapon, with thumb and forefinger actually holding the blade at the pecetan, i'm not sure if slashing in the usual manner is very practical, though this would not, i suppose, count out making short slashes with the blade. This grasp seems really to be most ideal for a stabbing action and it has been my understanding that the angle at which the blade sits is intended specifically for this stabbing action in order to more likely guide the blade towards the center of the body and the vital organs. I would think parrying might be dangerous with ones fingers on the blade, but maybe not.

BluErf · 9th April 2005, 12:05 AM

Technically, the keris panjang does not have a picetan. At least most don't; they have that small circular cavity cut into the gandik area.

Furthermore, the form of the keris panjang blade does not aid slashing. It is long but narrow, and is seldom very sharp along the edges; a decently broad and sharp blade would have facilitated slashing. Also, while there are robust panjangs, there are also a substantial number of flimsy bladed ones, some barely longer than 18 inches.

The thing that really makes me dismiss the rapier-vs-panjang idea is the fact that the only time you see a panjang is during a ceremony involving some sultan or raja, such as coronation ceremonies. You don't see it being carried around by during normal every day life.

And of course, there is no record of a fight involving a keris panjang. Only of a keris panjang being used to execute high ranking criminals.

8th April 2005, 08:00 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Tom makes a good point about the joining of the hilt and blade being perhaps a bigger problem than the tang when fighting with a keris. I have heard that in some places pitch was used for a more secure hold on the blade when a keris was to possiblly be used in fighting. I have not been able to comfirm this though. I did once receive a Bali keris in this condition, though it is impossible to know exactly when and by whom this attachment was made. Tom is also correct that there is a big difference between slashing and chopping. However, given the traditional manner of grasping the weapon, with thumb and forefinger actually holding the blade at the pecetan, i'm not sure if slashing in the usual manner is very practical, though this would not, i suppose, count out making short slashes with the blade. This grasp seems really to be most ideal for a stabbing action and it has been my understanding that the angle at which the blade sits is intended specifically for this stabbing action in order to more likely guide the blade towards the center of the body and the vital organs. I would think parrying might be dangerous with ones fingers on the blade, but maybe not.

9th April 2005, 12:05 AM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Technically, the keris panjang does not have a picetan. At least most don't; they have that small circular cavity cut into the gandik area. Furthermore, the form of the keris panjang blade does not aid slashing. It is long but narrow, and is seldom very sharp along the edges; a decently broad and sharp blade would have facilitated slashing. Also, while there are robust panjangs, there are also a substantial number of flimsy bladed ones, some barely longer than 18 inches. The thing that really makes me dismiss the rapier-vs-panjang idea is the fact that the only time you see a panjang is during a ceremony involving some sultan or raja, such as coronation ceremonies. You don't see it being carried around by during normal every day life. And of course, there is no record of a fight involving a keris panjang. Only of a keris panjang being used to execute high ranking criminals.