Sword I.D. Help Needed

Jim McDougall · 18th September 2008, 02:19 AM

I'm with Ed on this, it does have the look of 19th century interpretation of a rapier, using what appears to be a 19th century sabre blade. An attractive piece that might well be theatrical.

Thanks for posting it Joe, looks like it probably handles pretty well!

Best regards,
Jim

Ed · 18th September 2008, 02:45 AM

and another dratted "Urn" pommel

Paul Macdonald · 18th September 2008, 10:39 AM

Hi Folks,

Looks like a C19th stage sword to me.

The grip, pommel and quite possibly hilt appear to be C19th, and possibly with a cut down or ex-military blade. A bit difficult to be more specific or sure without handling and close examination.

All the best,

Macdonald

Marc · 18th September 2008, 12:06 PM

I agree, it looks like a mismatch of original, made up, and contemporary parts, trying to reproduce a 16tt-17th c. düssage - type weapon. As Paul said, pommel looks, at the best, later, the shell is made on the spot, the cross-block (a swordsmith friend of mine likes to call it "the spider", not a bad name) may be original... or not, and the blade could indeed easily be a 19th c. recycled military blade. It definitely would need a hands-on inspection to work out the details, but, as a whole, I agree that it seems a 19th. c product.

Matchlock · 21st September 2008, 06:15 PM

Hi Joe,

although I do not have an expertise in edged weapons, a friend of mine sure does and this is what he can attribute to your item:

It is not 'decorative' as one member feels but is of ca. 1730's date and definitely an early pirate's saber before they all began looking more or less the same in the second half of the 18th century.

He remembers reading on them and will share the details when he has found out.

Have fun with your rare piece!

Michael

Atlantia · 21st September 2008, 07:49 PM

The handle looks wrong, and the pommel looks a little worrying with that banded handle, but i'd have still said that its a late 17thC 'fighting' broadsword.
I think the blade and shell guard look fine together. Love to handle it and examine it in person. Nice sword. I'd have a punt at it if I got the chance.

celtan · 24th September 2008, 03:38 AM

I think its either a Dussage-tessak or a Skibshuggert...

M

celtan · 28th September 2008, 03:59 PM

Hi Ed,

Saw today a few urn-pommels,

Wither's "World Swords": German c.1600 Two handed sword. German Two-handed Stoc. C. 1500, both in p. 18. German Executioner Sword c. 1680 p. 14. and a squared sided version on p. 16, set on a German Bastard Sword c. 1600.

In Bull's "An Historical Guide to Arms and Armor" there's another couple of these pesky beasties on p. 104 set in two German Two-handers of C. 1580.

I mean, there aren't two exactly alike, but the design and form is there, quite apparent.

Best

Manolo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed

and another dratted "Urn" pommel

21st September 2008, 06:15 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	A ca. 1730's pirate's saber Hi Joe, although I do not have an expertise in edged weapons, a friend of mine sure does and this is what he can attribute to your item: It is not 'decorative' as one member feels but is of ca. 1730's date and definitely an early pirate's saber before they all began looking more or less the same in the second half of the 18th century. He remembers reading on them and will share the details when he has found out. Have fun with your rare piece! Michael

18th September 2008, 02:19 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,453	I'm with Ed on this, it does have the look of 19th century interpretation of a rapier, using what appears to be a 19th century sabre blade. An attractive piece that might well be theatrical. Thanks for posting it Joe, looks like it probably handles pretty well! Best regards, Jim

18th September 2008, 02:45 AM	#2
Ed Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 266	and another dratted "Urn" pommel

18th September 2008, 10:39 AM	#3
Paul Macdonald Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 48	Hi Folks, Looks like a C19th stage sword to me. The grip, pommel and quite possibly hilt appear to be C19th, and possibly with a cut down or ex-military blade. A bit difficult to be more specific or sure without handling and close examination. All the best, Macdonald

18th September 2008, 12:06 PM	#4
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I agree, it looks like a mismatch of original, made up, and contemporary parts, trying to reproduce a 16tt-17th c. düssage - type weapon. As Paul said, pommel looks, at the best, later, the shell is made on the spot, the cross-block (a swordsmith friend of mine likes to call it "the spider", not a bad name) may be original... or not, and the blade could indeed easily be a 19th c. recycled military blade. It definitely would need a hands-on inspection to work out the details, but, as a whole, I agree that it seems a 19th. c product.

21st September 2008, 07:49 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	The handle looks wrong, and the pommel looks a little worrying with that banded handle, but i'd have still said that its a late 17thC 'fighting' broadsword. I think the blade and shell guard look fine together. Love to handle it and examine it in person. Nice sword. I'd have a punt at it if I got the chance.

24th September 2008, 03:38 AM	#7
celtan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: PR, USA Posts: 679	I think its either a Dussage-tessak or a Skibshuggert... M