metal weapons and tools in the pacific

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Wow this is What do you make of this beautiful piece, I am not sure any more?

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=razor

yes the curl on that one looks much more like the tongan weapon i saw,, but that choppers handle and such look more to be african it i were to guess..

[Tim Simmons]

My thoughts were also African. It was sold as being from the south seas, I have shown it to other collectors that thought the handle was similar to south seas work. Other African collectors say they have not seen anything like it. I based my African origin on the zig-zag paterns on the steel ferrle only because I have a South Sudan spear with similar work on the socket part of the blade.
In all seriousness these patern forms are very much universal for humans the world over. I find the similarity in form most interesting. I am also very inspired by the photo of the Tongan/Samoan dignitary posing with the weapon. My example is a very pretty item much time has been spent on its construction. I now really do wonder about the possibility of this being a prestige item from the South Seas?

This swan is from Sweden I believe, so I would not rule out the decoration which is indeed common on many carved items from the South Seas?


Also as in this Fijian? bowl which I have been encouraged to believe is early 20th century, it has seen use anyway? and the flash is on.


Yes it has three legs.

[Tim Simmons]

Look here-

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1928.59.21/

I really do think Samoan. My example is very sharp so it could be a bush knife but it is also very beautiful so I doubt that. Are these always a standard size? I also doubt that.

[Clubs & Arrows]

The dark wooden dish is Fijian. I've seen them listed as a Priest's Oil Dish and as a Priest's Inspirational Kava Dish. Does it have three tiny legs underneath?

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Look here-

http://webprojects.prm.ox.ac.uk/arms...ms/1928.59.21/

I really do think Samoan. My example is very sharp so it could be a bush knife but it is also very beautiful so I doubt that. Are these always a standard size? I also doubt that.

ahhrr, but the description was very very fantaciful,, :s,, these things are no billhoook that has ever exsisted, but are a steel rendering of a traditional knife-club,

i wounder if the cunning trader frist imported iron bladed weapons looking like the club or if the natives produced these first and they were then produce dinen mass in europe?

[fearn]

Hi Ausjulius,

In an old publication from the Bishop Museum, there was the story of the Hawaiians cold-forging nails from driftwood and using these for spikes, weaponry, and tools. This was before they were contacted, although I have no idea whose ships were being wrecked and washing up on Hawaii.

Don't know if this is true, but I do know that the Eskimos treated meteoric iron the same way, so it's possible.

What I'd say, then, is if anyone can produce a cold forged bit of iron, it actually might be part of an indigenous tradition.

F

[Berkley]

The Fijian wooden war club shown here appears to have some relationship to the objects under discussion.

[ausjulius]

Originally Posted by fearn

Hi Ausjulius,

In an old publication from the Bishop Museum, there was the story of the Hawaiians cold-forging nails from driftwood and using these for spikes, weaponry, and tools. This was before they were contacted, although I have no idea whose ships were being wrecked and washing up on Hawaii.

Don't know if this is true, but I do know that the Eskimos treated meteoric iron the same way, so it's possible.

What I'd say, then, is if anyone can produce a cold forged bit of iron, it actually might be part of an indigenous tradition.

F

inuit and indians on the west of canada and alaska had a well developed inderstanding of working with metals before contact.. ive a good collection of images,,, sime items or a good deal of antiquity..
the inuit has quite large copper weapons , long daggers and knives some over a foot in blade lenght..
but they had access to these metals,,...

the people of the pacific did not... so it means little that they could use a nail to make a hook,, in papua new guine gold for exsample was known,,,,,,, but nothing was made of it.. but they had access to it,
the pacific islanders knew of metals for shure , they have in their languages words for these items,, and understood iron and copper at first contact... but they had no way of obtaining it on demand..
unlike the inuit who woudl as it exsisted in his area of habitation,,
and the new guinean,,
the inuit put copper and iron to use but the new guinean did not put gold to use.. ( in most languages in PNG and the solomons there is some work for gold.. ans it occours in these areas in nugget form)

so the thing is
1,, to have a desire for and knowledge of the material,
2 , to be able to procure it on demand,
in the pacific the 1st is true , aspecialy in the polonesian areas , and secound is not......

so i wounder what was the weapons of iron th produced in larger islands , fiji,, for exsample. .. did they make iron weapons of their own.. and new zealand,i wounder, as the maori had alot of contact.. did they develop and iron knives or tools unique to them.. or did they just take the european weapons and produce the in the same syle. i know that most pa's would maintain at least one more skilled europeans even before the new zealand colonial period, and these individuials were a prized possession by a tribe and almost required to maintain any prestiege ,
much of these men were traders ,carpenters or blacksmiths.. ect ect... and shurly as with the slow supplie of trade goods and the limited range these folk manifactured to order items they thought the maori woudl desire or were requested to make.. and no doubt their skills were partialy passed on to the natives..

i wounder was there any specific maori iron works then???





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[Tim Simmons]

Why not? especially in the later part of the 19th century? Some of the Anerican indian metal weapons are the most plain beautiful you are every likely to see.