A gem made by Gem

[katana]

Wow Fernando,
I thought it was just our friends on the other side of the 'pond' that were 'gun crazy'

You're amassing quite an arsenal .....you expecting trouble ?

Very nice piece and looks in amazingly good condition.....with original bullets . Would such old bullets be 'stable' ? I am also curious about the 'gun laws' in Europe ? Are there special exemptions for older firearms ?

Kind Regards David

[FenrisWolf]

Originally Posted by katana

Wow Fernando,
I thought it was just our friends on the other side of the 'pond' that were 'gun crazy'

Kind Regards David

I'm reminded of a bit of dialog from a movie called 'Barcelona', where a Spanish woman comments to an American about how violent American culture is, to which he replied, "Amercia isn't any more violent than anywhere else in the world; we're just better shots!" As the German officers discovered in WWI....

Fenris
proud owner of a whole BUNCHA guns
(though none of them as pretty as those shown on this board!)

[lemmythesmith]

Hi Fernando, that's a beauty!! I've shot one of these (almost the twin to yours) and they are a joy to shoot.

Regards, Graham.

[Ed]

Oh, Fernando ... Portugal!!!

God, my wife and I went there for a couple of weeks a long time ago ... Cascais to Porto to Sintra to the Algarve and back to Lisboa. What a great trip, I recall seeing the Crusader ruins and a gorgeous Templar church ... Sintra was it? I forget. And the military museum in Lisbon. I drove down an alley looking for it and bumped into a couple of machine gun toting soldiers and their officer. He looked at me and slowly wagged his finger back and forth. "No further" he meant. Gave him a big Dumb Toiurist (tm) smile and off we went.

Vintage Port and BBQ'd shrimp with Piri Piri.

I mainly remember the food..... barnacles at that great restaurant near Cascais right on the beach ...

Portugal, great destination ... don't tell anyone.

[fernando]

wrong ... and removeable.

[celtan]

Black Powder can last centuries without significant decay, specially if well packed or if made with Saltpeter.

Hmmm....Percebes AND mejillones. Plus some Octopus "a la galega" regado with Albarinho wine...



(You guys must have something similar to pulpo a la galega and Albarino, portuguese and galicians have lots of customs in common. )

BTW: I own C-96s, P-08s (including one artillery plus the round magazine), P-38s, ASTRAS 900 & 600, a Mauser M95, a few modern and my carry, a SW-65...

I fancy about owning a MP-38/40, a MP-5, a Dragunov, a M-14 (or a M1/A2), a G3 or a FAL. But it's actually impractical. Too much iron to spread among the walls! The M14 alternative is very attractive, albeit impossible, being a full automatic..



[QUOTE=fernando][QUOTE=Ed]Oh, Fernando ... Portugal!!!
God, my wife and I went there for a couple of weeks a long time ago ... Cascais to Porto to Sintra to the Algarve and back to Lisboa. What a great trip, I recall seeing the Crusader ruins and a gorgeous Templar church ... Sintra was it? I forget. [QUOTE]

That was the Tomar convent, with the magnificent Templar "charola".

[QUOTE=Ed] And the military museum in Lisbon.[QUOTE]

I go there every now and then ... the greatest world collection of bronze cannons in the yard.

~

I don't fancy much Port wine ... but i usually have the best for offer.

[QUOTE=Ed]I mainly remember the food..... barnacles ...

We call them percebes; they taste like sea.



I won't

Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

... Hmmm....Percebes AND mejillones. Plus some Octopus "a la galega" regado with Albarinho wine... (You guys must have something similar to pulpo a la galega and Albarino, portuguese and galicians have lots of customs in common.)

Yeah. Percebes, alvarinho e polvo. A good Portuguese labeled alvarinho is expensive; but not if you order it in jars, in little local restaurants or taverns.
I happen to live 90 Kms. away from Galiza. No wonder we have lots of things in common, including a similar language, based on the Galaico-Portuguese; both sides of the actual border were the same nation, over 800 years ago

Originally Posted by celtan

BTW: I own C-96s, P-08s (including one artillery plus the round magazine), P-38s, ASTRAS 900 & 600, a Mauser M95, a few modern and my carry, a SW-65... I fancy about owning a MP-38/40, a MP-5, a Dragunov, a M-14 (or a M1/A2), a G3 or a FAL. But it's actually impractical. Too much iron to spread among the walls! The M14 alternative is very attractive, albeit impossible, being a full automatic...

Hombre, caramba
... And was it to me that David (Katana) asked if i was expecting troubles ?

Fernando

[fernando]

wrong... and removeable ... part II

[fernando]

wrong ... and removeable Part III.
A disastrous sequence of wrongly built postings.

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Ed

Oh, Fernando ... Portugal!!!
God, my wife and I went there for a couple of weeks a long time ago ... Cascais to Porto to Sintra to the Algarve and back to Lisboa. What a great trip, I recall seeing the Crusader ruins and a gorgeous Templar church ... Sintra was it? I forget.

The convent of Tomar, with its magnificent Templar "Charola".

Originally Posted by Ed

And the military museum in Lisbon.

I go there every now and then. The greatest world collection of bronze cannons ... is mostly in the yard.

Originally Posted by Ed

Vintage Port and BBQ'd shrimp with Piri Piri.

I don't go much for Port wine myself, but i usually have the best for offer.

Originally Posted by Ed

I mainly remember the food..... barnacles ...

We call them percebes; they taste like sea.

Originally Posted by Ed

Portugal, great destination ... don't tell anyone.

I won't

Fernando

[kahnjar1]

Hi Fernando,
A very nice piece and much the sort of thing I used to collect. Its a model 1855 Beaumont Adams revolver, and all the original bits seem to be still in the case---a real bonus!! Is there any marking on the mould?
Edward Gem & Co is not shown as a MAKER in my books, so I assume that he was the retailer. This was quite usual on these and more often than not, the RETAILER was marked on the rib, rather than the maker. I take it that the Trade Label which would normally be inside the lid of the case is no longer there? A lot of these revolvers were actually made by the London Armoury Co and were usually marked L.A.C somewhere on the frame or barrel. I see British Proofs on the cylinder. Anything on the barrel?
STILL ASHAMED FERNANDO??? I DON'T THINK SO!!! ITS A LOVELY PIECE!

[Atlantia]

Wow Fernando! Thats a truly breathtaking set.
You really don't see them in that condition often these days.
That would be the 'jewel' ;-) of any collection.

Reagrds
Gene

[fernando]

Hi Stu

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... A very nice piece and much the sort of thing I used to collect. Its a model 1855 Beaumont Adams revolver

Yes, it has a Beaumont Adams silhouette, but with a few alterations, both in body as also in assembly, with some "luxury" optionals.
And it is obviously a 54 bore caliber and not 58 as i first mentioned.

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... and all the original bits seem to be still in the case---a real bonus!! Is there any marking on the mould?

The only mark in the mould is the caliber digits 54. The powder flask is marked Bartram.

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... Edward Gem & Co is not shown as a MAKER in my books, so I assume that he was the retailer. This was quite usual on these and more often than not, the RETAILER was marked on the rib, rather than the maker.

Well, not propperly as retailer in the generical sense. It took me five years to find out that Mr Edward Gem was one of a number of Birmingham Gunmakers and dealers who became a shareholder in the founding on the Birmingham small arms Co Ltd.
He has also been a factor for a number of Birmingham makers; i guess in a sense that, at a certain stage there were several "workshops" in Birmingham, making loose weapons parts, that were later assembled by those that sold the guns to the market ... retailers, governments and other.

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... I take it that the Trade Label which would normally be inside the lid of the case is no longer there?

I ignore if ever there was a Trade Label; some ignorant, thinking he was doing the right thing, has painted the whole case interior with some thick plastic paint, thus covering all traces of a possible label. One of these things you will never know the reason for.

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... A lot of these revolvers were actually made by the London Armoury Co and were usually marked L.A.C somewhere on the frame or barrel.

As introduced above, i don't think this was the case; more probably a "white line" specimen or, which also took place in those days, a customized and or personalized specimen, ordered with instructions not to bring any maker's codes.

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... I see British Proofs on the cylinder. Anything on the barrel?

Yes, both Birmingham and London proof marks on both cylinder and barrel

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

... STILL ASHAMED FERNANDO??? I DON'T THINK SO!!! ITS A LOVELY PIECE!

Well, they are not all junk

Fernando

[fernando]

Hi David,

Originally Posted by katana

Wow Fernando ...You're amassing quite an arsenal .....you expecting trouble ?

I just didn't laugh out loud because the wife would have thought i'm getting worse

Originally Posted by katana

... Very nice piece and looks in amazingly good condition.....with original bullets . Would such old bullets be 'stable' ? ...

In those days bullets themselves were inofensive; no cartridge, no ignition ... just loose pieces of lead ( i am not at home to post a picture of one).You would have to set up the actual ammunition by pouring gunpowder into the cilinder chambers and after ram the lead bullets into the said chambers, with a lever usually mounted by the barrel side, to achieve the final charge. Still you had to place ignition caps onto each chamber nipple, to be able to ignite the charge and shoot it off.

Originally Posted by katana

... I am also curious about the 'gun laws' in Europe ? Are there special exemptions for older firearms ? ...

In the context of the following thread, started by Flavio, i resume the current arms law in Portugal.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6885.
I can extend further, if of interest or something not clear. I can tell you things are not easy for antique arms sellers and collectors.
Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by katana

...with original bullets . Would such old bullets be 'stable' ?

Here is a picture of the bullets. Also a test i once made with the bronze seal that, for some reason, was left inside the revolver case. This thing of the seal is an intriguing riddle i keep thinking about.
Fernando

[katana]

Originally Posted by fernando

Here is a picture of the bullets. Also a test i once made with the bronze seal that, for some reason, was left inside the revolver case. This thing of the seal is an intriguing riddle i keep thinking about.
Fernando

Thanks Fernando,
seeing the 'hammer' I assumed that the bullets had percussion caps
Thank you for the information, my gun knowledge is 'limited' and was unaware that percussion caps could be used to ignite a 'charge' to propel a 'cast' lead bullet. I wonder whether it would allow 'experimental' use of various amounts and types of gunpowder to alter the 'characteristics' of the projectiles speed/range/penetration.

Regards David

[fernando]

Hi David,

Originally Posted by katana

... seeing the 'hammer' I assumed that the bullets had percussion caps. ... I wonder whether it would allow 'experimental' use of various amounts and types of gunpowder to alter the 'characteristics' of the projectiles speed/range/penetration.

Gunpowder was tested before being cleared and put to service, or out in the market; in those days its strenght was highly variable and you couldn't risk to use it before checking the different lots. A device called (gun) powder tester or eprouvette, partly resembling a pistol but in fact with a dynamic mechanism, was used to measure its explosive strength.
Having it "homologated" for the distinct purposes, still you had the option to load your charge with a variable power, by adjusting the spout of your powder flask.
Bullets could also be round or pointy, depending on your preference.
BTW, just for curiosity, pointed projectiles were first introduced by Da Vinci.

Fernando

[celtan]

Hi,

Katana lives in England, currently a peaceful country, where the police mostly doesn't even carry firearms. Or has this changed?

I liive in San Juan, PR, a paradisical island which also happens to be the most violent corner of the good ol'USA.

Also, I collect weapons because I like them, they are beautiful. It's incredible how much effort and detail man places in their manufacture. Even today, many of our scientific advances are by-products of weapon's development.

I only shoot three of my guns at the club, and this sporadically, so I don't forget how to aim : ). The rest have never been fired...


BTW, I didn't know about this eprouvette device. I had seen a couple before, but I thought they were curiously complicated flintlock fire starters.

Thanks, learned something new today!

The sprouts you show adjust the amount of grains dispensed by the powder flask. (Pistols were usually loaded with 40-50 grains of FFG BP)
I have a couple english ones. One of them still has the original balls and caps, albeit sans mercury nitrate or BP, which I discarded.


Best

Manolo


See Pics:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi David,



Gunpowder was tested before being cleared and put to service, or out in the market; in those days its strenght was highly variable and you couldn't risk to use it before checking the different lots. A device called (gun) powder tester or eprouvette, partly resembling a pistol but in fact with a dynamic mechanism, was used to measure its explosive strength.
Having it "homologated" for the distinct purposes, still you had the option to load your charge with a variable power, by adjusting the spout of your powder flask.
Bullets could also be round or pointy, depending on your preference.
BTW, just for curiosity, pointed projectiles were first introduced by Da Vinci.

Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by celtan

... I liive in San Juan, PR, a paradisical island which also happens to be the most violent corner of the good ol'USA. ...

So you are a Porto Riquenho and not an Espanhol ?
How in hell did i create the idea that you lived in my neighbour country ?
Let me correct my mind files

Fernando

[fernando]

Originally Posted by fernando

So you are a Porto Riquenho and not an Espanhol ?
How in hell did i create the idea that you lived in my neighbour country ?
Let me correct my mind files

Fernando

Let me go back to square one; i have found the following by coincidence. Remember ?:

I'm am eclectic combination of Galician, Basque, Asturian and Lionese. But that's too long to say, I guess that Spanish-American is more practical.
Now, besides the vino, tortillas and chorizos, I also enjoy Fried Chicken, Pizzas and Apple Pie...
Vive la difference!

So

[celtan]

I'm originally galician, but I have lived in PR for many years, one of many places I have been.

I sincerely believe that when you live in a country, whether you are born there or not, the local culture and mores rub on you, and by virtue of this you become part of that country. So I guess that in that sense, yes , I'm also puertoriqueno, just like I also am a Yankee-Doodle-Dandy, to boot!

Cheers

: )

M

Originally Posted by fernando

So you are a Porto Riquenho and not an Espanhol ?
How in hell did i create the idea that you lived in my neighbour country ?
Let me correct my mind files

Fernando