Weapon, Tool or Tent Peg ?

Robert · 11th September 2008, 04:52 PM

Picked this up recently and really have no idea of what it is. Looks like it could be a dagger, a spear tip or some kind of tool. Possibly a reworked bayonet / trench art? It has the #906 stamped into the round portion of the blade and a heavy hollow copper grip or ferrel. Any and all help in identifying what it is and where it might be from will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Robert

Total length 13-1/2"
Blade length including round section 9-5/8"
Blade at widest 13/16"
Blade at thickest 1/4"
Grip Length 3-7/8"

josh stout · 11th September 2008, 05:33 PM

Could the grip be a reworked shell casing?
Josh

Atlantia · 11th September 2008, 06:13 PM

What are the markings, just 906? Its like a crude sleeve bayonet, but the blade is very well made. I wonder if it is a 'trench art' functional bayonet?

katana · 11th September 2008, 06:50 PM

Interesting...
I have seen a number of WW1 reworked bayonets fitted with a cartridge case hilt. After the return of the soldiers, food was a priority and 'every day' tools were more scarce (a lot of steel/iron was taken and used to manufacture guns, tanks etc).
Many started to 'grow their own' food ...a number of these bayonets were mounted onto short shafts (hence the percussion cap removal from the shell so that it could accomodate a 'stick') and used as gardening implements etc.
That could be the case here

.....reminds me of that expression about swords and ploughs ..and 'necessity is the mother of invention'

A great 'snap shot' of history.

Regards David

Robert · 11th September 2008, 07:53 PM

Thank you all for your interest and comments on this item. The copper sleeve seems much to heavy and thick walled to have been a shell casing, at least for any that I have seen. The only markings on this is just the # 906. The blade is very well made but not real sharp and I'm not sure it ever was. Again my thanks.

Robert

Atlantia · 11th September 2008, 10:17 PM

Is the 906 rubbed? could it have been 1906?

Robert · 11th September 2008, 10:27 PM

Hi Atlantia, It is possible that there could be a 1 under the copper sleeve but I would have to remove it to find out and I really don't want to risk damaging anything.

Robert

Atlantia · 12th September 2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hi Atlantia, It is possible that there could be a 1 under the copper sleeve but I would have to remove it to find out and I really don't want to risk damaging anything.

Robert

well I was just wondering, if the 906 isn't a serial number, could it be a date? Bayonets arent really my bag, but I do like a mystery, and arent there several 1906 patern bayonets? If you look up the hollow tube with a torch, what's visible?

Robert · 12th September 2008, 01:14 AM

Looking down the tube all that can be seen is green copper oxidation, the rusted flat end of the round portion of the blade end and what appears to be the remnants of some kind of rosin or pitch.

Robert

kronckew · 14th September 2008, 09:38 PM

during WW1 the combatants found that a knife was more handy in the trenches than a sword or issue bayonet (the ones in use were usually long sword bayonets) so the trench knife became a field expedient.

they were produced from cut down bayonets, barbed wire posts, large nails, anything that could be turned into a weapon by the local unit armourer.

the germans, of course were more organised and produced large numbers of trench knives.

the brits, besides knives, were rather fond of coshes (wood handle with a lead lump on the end, frequently covered in leather) or trench maces of cast iron to fit the entrenching tool handle.

the french made a large number from old lebel bayonets, and from large nails and barbed wire posts.

quite a variety would have been made by local 'designers' and i'd guess that yours was one.

unfortuneatley most of them never made it to the trenches, as the owners got machined gunned before getting there, but some were used to great effect.

top, german grabendolche, boot scabbard.
middle, french nail knife.
bottom UK trench mace.

asomotif · 15th September 2008, 05:29 PM

The blade does not fit in the picture of any WW1 bayonet that I know.

And also the shape and finish of the brass handle does not make is a perfect close combat weapon. So I don't whink this is a fighting knife.

maybe it is a reworked tent peg that could now be fitted on a wooden pole.
But that is merely a guess

11th September 2008, 04:52 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Weapon, Tool or Tent Peg ? Picked this up recently and really have no idea of what it is. Looks like it could be a dagger, a spear tip or some kind of tool. Possibly a reworked bayonet / trench art? It has the #906 stamped into the round portion of the blade and a heavy hollow copper grip or ferrel. Any and all help in identifying what it is and where it might be from will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Robert Total length 13-1/2" Blade length including round section 9-5/8" Blade at widest 13/16" Blade at thickest 1/4" Grip Length 3-7/8" Attached Images

11th September 2008, 05:33 PM	#2
josh stout Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 407	Could the grip be a reworked shell casing? Josh

11th September 2008, 06:13 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	What are the markings, just 906? Its like a crude sleeve bayonet, but the blade is very well made. I wonder if it is a 'trench art' functional bayonet?

11th September 2008, 06:50 PM	#4
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Interesting... I have seen a number of WW1 reworked bayonets fitted with a cartridge case hilt. After the return of the soldiers, food was a priority and 'every day' tools were more scarce (a lot of steel/iron was taken and used to manufacture guns, tanks etc). Many started to 'grow their own' food ...a number of these bayonets were mounted onto short shafts (hence the percussion cap removal from the shell so that it could accomodate a 'stick') and used as gardening implements etc. That could be the case here .....reminds me of that expression about swords and ploughs ..and 'necessity is the mother of invention' A great 'snap shot' of history. Regards David

11th September 2008, 07:53 PM	#5
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Thank you all for your interest and comments on this item. The copper sleeve seems much to heavy and thick walled to have been a shell casing, at least for any that I have seen. The only markings on this is just the # 906. The blade is very well made but not real sharp and I'm not sure it ever was. Again my thanks. Robert

11th September 2008, 10:17 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Is the 906 rubbed? could it have been 1906?

11th September 2008, 10:27 PM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hi Atlantia, It is possible that there could be a 1 under the copper sleeve but I would have to remove it to find out and I really don't want to risk damaging anything. Robert

12th September 2008, 01:14 AM	#9
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Looking down the tube all that can be seen is green copper oxidation, the rusted flat end of the round portion of the blade end and what appears to be the remnants of some kind of rosin or pitch. Robert

14th September 2008, 09:38 PM	#10
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,186	during WW1 the combatants found that a knife was more handy in the trenches than a sword or issue bayonet (the ones in use were usually long sword bayonets) so the trench knife became a field expedient. they were produced from cut down bayonets, barbed wire posts, large nails, anything that could be turned into a weapon by the local unit armourer. the germans, of course were more organised and produced large numbers of trench knives. the brits, besides knives, were rather fond of coshes (wood handle with a lead lump on the end, frequently covered in leather) or trench maces of cast iron to fit the entrenching tool handle. the french made a large number from old lebel bayonets, and from large nails and barbed wire posts. quite a variety would have been made by local 'designers' and i'd guess that yours was one. unfortuneatley most of them never made it to the trenches, as the owners got machined gunned before getting there, but some were used to great effect. top, german grabendolche, boot scabbard. middle, french nail knife. bottom UK trench mace.

15th September 2008, 05:29 PM	#11
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,225	The blade does not fit in the picture of any WW1 bayonet that I know. And also the shape and finish of the brass handle does not make is a perfect close combat weapon. So I don't whink this is a fighting knife. maybe it is a reworked tent peg that could now be fitted on a wooden pole. But that is merely a guess