Keris Sundang Melayu

VVV · 7th September 2008, 05:03 PM

Hi Kai Wee,

From what I have seen of Sabah and Brunei kris suluk they look the same as the "regular" Moro kris?
Do you have any additional references than the sundang in the Asian Civilisations Museum?
My keris sundang, the one in the first post, is much smaller than a regular moro kris. It's hanging on my wall next to a Coteng with Pandai Saras (see Krisdisk 10:33) and they have same size.
On the idea that the keris sundang comes from Sulawesi I first read it in Taman Indera, p. 133.

Michael

Battara · 8th September 2008, 01:57 AM

Bluerf, there may be a miss communication. I did not say that the kris in question is Moro, but that the okir style on the blade looks Moro. My point on the Moro going to other places is another source of the cross pollination. Many Moros in Sabah. In fact, at one time Sabah was once part of the Sulu Sultanate.

Also, would you show a close up of the Bugis keris buntut please?

BluErf · 8th September 2008, 04:05 PM

Hi Michael,

The degree of similarity would indeed be quite high given the proximity of N Borneo with Sulu and Mindanao, and I won't even rule out the possibility of blades travelling from one area to another. However, my observations had been that the Malay sundang tend to be smaller (the size of a large pandai saras is not out of question, though they shd be slightly larger than that) and have features closer to other kerises (e.g. the execution of the kembang kacang, the greneng, the ganja). We would need to look more closely at the base of the blade to see the differences.

Of the other examples I can remember, I have seen one that went through Adni very recently. Perhaps he can provide some photos, if the new owner would permit. I think that would be a perfect example for discussion. There is also another example in Paul de Souza's collection. There was another specimen on ebay quite a long while back, snagged by someone with the ID "Amisar" (whoever he is); that was a fantastic example. And if memory serves me right, Dave Henkel has one too, and in similar sandang walikat sheath too.

BluErf · 8th September 2008, 04:17 PM

Hi Battara,

Actually, when I posted my reply, I have not read your post yet. Sorry about that!

I was responding to Michael's post about some people believing that the sundang originated from Sulawesi.

I don't have a picture of the buntut dead on, so I'll just post one cropped from a larger picture. Actually, it's quite plain, with some semi-circular engravings. Quite crude actually.

8th September 2008, 04:17 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Battara, Actually, when I posted my reply, I have not read your post yet. Sorry about that! I was responding to Michael's post about some people believing that the sundang originated from Sulawesi. I don't have a picture of the buntut dead on, so I'll just post one cropped from a larger picture. Actually, it's quite plain, with some semi-circular engravings. Quite crude actually. Attached Images

7th September 2008, 05:03 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Kai Wee, From what I have seen of Sabah and Brunei kris suluk they look the same as the "regular" Moro kris? Do you have any additional references than the sundang in the Asian Civilisations Museum? My keris sundang, the one in the first post, is much smaller than a regular moro kris. It's hanging on my wall next to a Coteng with Pandai Saras (see Krisdisk 10:33) and they have same size. On the idea that the keris sundang comes from Sulawesi I first read it in Taman Indera, p. 133. Michael

8th September 2008, 01:57 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Bluerf, there may be a miss communication. I did not say that the kris in question is Moro, but that the okir style on the blade looks Moro. My point on the Moro going to other places is another source of the cross pollination. Many Moros in Sabah. In fact, at one time Sabah was once part of the Sulu Sultanate. Also, would you show a close up of the Bugis keris buntut please?

8th September 2008, 04:05 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Michael, The degree of similarity would indeed be quite high given the proximity of N Borneo with Sulu and Mindanao, and I won't even rule out the possibility of blades travelling from one area to another. However, my observations had been that the Malay sundang tend to be smaller (the size of a large pandai saras is not out of question, though they shd be slightly larger than that) and have features closer to other kerises (e.g. the execution of the kembang kacang, the greneng, the ganja). We would need to look more closely at the base of the blade to see the differences. Of the other examples I can remember, I have seen one that went through Adni very recently. Perhaps he can provide some photos, if the new owner would permit. I think that would be a perfect example for discussion. There is also another example in Paul de Souza's collection. There was another specimen on ebay quite a long while back, snagged by someone with the ID "Amisar" (whoever he is); that was a fantastic example. And if memory serves me right, Dave Henkel has one too, and in similar sandang walikat sheath too.