Talismanic or just randomly placed copper dots

[kai]

Hello Rick,

People have said that the power of a keris resides in the tang, or pesi; so you might use the pesi of the powerful kris to enhance the power of the new sword .

The only info on Moro kris regarding this topic (by Cato) suggests that the base area (especially the "arrow" motif if fullers are present) is the "home" of the jin. If I remember correctly, Alan related that the pesi of keris Jawa isn't usually regarded as having special power either.

Also, if this is the case why not just use the powerful metal in the forging process rather than go through the difficult process of adding it later resulting in weakening the overall structure of the sword ?

Yes, recycling the metal seems to have been traditionally used in Indonesia and would certainly make sense from a structural point of view...

Having said that; I still think that these could also be legitimate repairs to weapons destroyed by government patrols .

I wouldn't emphasize the colonial war by the US too much since I guess that many repairs were already done well before the US involvement: Many repairs are of a quality which I'd estimate to have vanished before the 20th century, possibly already during the Span.-Am. war.

Regards,
Kai

[Rick]

Hello Kai,
Thanks for correcting my assumptions .
I really don't want to emphasise any war in particular .

The culture has been in conflict with outsiders since the days of Magellan .

What is your opinion on this tang phenomenon ?
Esoteric or functional ?

[kai]

Hello Rick,

What is your opinion on this tang phenomenon ?
Esoteric or functional ?

I'm leaning towards these being tang repairs but keep an open mind.

It would be great to collect more data on these constructions. I'd ask anybody removing the hilt of a kris to take close-ups and measurements of the tang and also pay special attention to modifications done to the gangya. Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Kai

[kino]

The other side.

[Tim Simmons]

Great fun. I know weapons do get repaired. I have done so myself quite recently . No seriously I still feel very unsure about so many repairs in the same spot on the same sword form from one location, with other weapons from the same location, where said to be purposely damaged [or not] are undamaged. They are not rubbish weapons we know that. We could all post pictures of this feature?
It would also mean thousands of fallen fighters weapons left broken on the ground simply to be picked up again, then repiared just to be captured again this time not damaged for a second time. Some how we might make sense of it all.

[Spunjer]

very interesting thread...

Again we see this so called hilt repair.

... or perhaps just a certain blacksmith's method of strengthening the tang? what i do find interesting on kino's kris are the decoration found on the asang-asang. somewhat similar to the one i got:

sorry about the yellow tint. bad lighting, lol







and another similar aspect is the so called hilt repair





tim does bring up some interesting points.

[Bill]

another thought on this. Dead man's sword. Captured or a fallen fellow warrior, the Jen would have failed the previous owner if killed in battle. Lack of metal/time & no lack of enemies could necessitate re-use.
I worked in a craft job that had a occasional death. The deceased's tools were known as "dead mans tools" & always thrown in the dumpster. I can only imagine what may have been thought about a sword with a Jen that failed. Perhaps this is why we see the talismanic markings many of the "tang repaired" blades. It may not be tang related at all but tossing out a bad Jen.

[kai]

Hello Ron,

... or perhaps just a certain blacksmith's method of strengthening the tang?

How would such a construction be stronger than a regular tang?

I've also heard the suggestion that this may have been done with blades where not enough material was left for forming a tang during the original forging. I don't think so: obviously the skill of the bladesmiths was high. Even if your pieces for the sandwich construction were not large enough for a tang, the easiest and stronger solution would still be to take an additional suitable piece of mild steel and weld it between the layers during the sandwich step...

Regards,
Kai