"tears of the wounded" swords...

Andrew · 26th August 2008, 12:20 AM

Here's a good thread on this topic from the "Classics":

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=tears

Jens Nordlunde · 26th August 2008, 04:19 PM

Swords with ’tears of the wounded’/’tears of the inflicted’ have been made in several countries, in India they were often made in connection with a chevron pattern blade. In few the bearings were pearls, which would have been rather unpractical, as pearls are very soft, and would soon be worn to a smaller size and they would fall out of the fuller. I have heard of rubies used, but only in daggers, and that would make sence when it comes to the name, but these types must have been court weapons only. Someone told me, long ago, that the swords with steel/lead balls were used in battles, they may have been, and they may not have been used. I can’t say, other than most of there swords are stronger than one would think. The sound when you swing such a sword is like very heavy rain outside, ’Shhhh’ (not translated into English

), so it would not be heard in a battle.

The chevron patter on a blade can be made in two ways, either the chevrons are made in wax, and the blade is etched. This is not regarded as being a ’real’ chevron blade, as the hole blade is watered. The other way to do it is to make the chevrons one by one, first using watered steel, and the next by using mono steel, and in the end forge them together. The last method is, of course, much more difficult, and so much more expensive.

Jim McDougall · 27th August 2008, 04:34 AM

I forgot about the chevron pattern Jens. I seem to recall something about the dark and light coloring of the alternating chevrons representing the two key rivers in India, Ganges and Yumaji(?)
I think the tears of the wounded concept applied in Chinese swords was from imported swords or diplomatic gifts from Safavid Persia or Mughal India.

I still wonder what that description is intended to mean, tears of the wounded (or afflicted?).

All the best,
Jim

Jens Nordlunde · 27th August 2008, 12:25 PM

Ganga-Jamni. When gold and silver are used together in a decoration, is called Ganga-Jamni. It is supposed to imitate the manner in which the muddy stream of the Ganges and the pure waters of the Jumna flow for some time together, side-by-side, but unmixed, at their junction below the fort at Allahabad.

I don’t know if the two different colours on the chevron blades have the same meaning, or if the meaning is different.

ward · 27th August 2008, 04:17 PM

Only seen terars of the wounded with metal balls I think they're just deocrative maybe to show the smith's skill

Ward

Bill M · 28th August 2008, 12:42 AM

The few swords I have seen with these balls had very small balls, only a few mm in diameter. Less than 1/8th inch. Certainly not enough to affect the swinging of the blade. The channels in which they rode -- though small -- would seem to affect the integrity of the blade.

I seem to remember a similar conversation with Phillip Tom.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th August 2008, 12:44 PM

I once did measure one of the steel balls, and it measured 4 mm in diameter. What I don’t know is, if the original diameter was bigger, and the ball has been worn, not do I know if the number of balls were the same in the different sword blades having the tears of the wounded.

26th August 2008, 04:19 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Swords with ’tears of the wounded’/’tears of the inflicted’ have been made in several countries, in India they were often made in connection with a chevron pattern blade. In few the bearings were pearls, which would have been rather unpractical, as pearls are very soft, and would soon be worn to a smaller size and they would fall out of the fuller. I have heard of rubies used, but only in daggers, and that would make sence when it comes to the name, but these types must have been court weapons only. Someone told me, long ago, that the swords with steel/lead balls were used in battles, they may have been, and they may not have been used. I can’t say, other than most of there swords are stronger than one would think. The sound when you swing such a sword is like very heavy rain outside, ’Shhhh’ (not translated into English), so it would not be heard in a battle. The chevron patter on a blade can be made in two ways, either the chevrons are made in wax, and the blade is etched. This is not regarded as being a ’real’ chevron blade, as the hole blade is watered. The other way to do it is to make the chevrons one by one, first using watered steel, and the next by using mono steel, and in the end forge them together. The last method is, of course, much more difficult, and so much more expensive.

27th August 2008, 04:34 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,356	I forgot about the chevron pattern Jens. I seem to recall something about the dark and light coloring of the alternating chevrons representing the two key rivers in India, Ganges and Yumaji(?) I think the tears of the wounded concept applied in Chinese swords was from imported swords or diplomatic gifts from Safavid Persia or Mughal India. I still wonder what that description is intended to mean, tears of the wounded (or afflicted?). All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 27th August 2008 at 04:55 AM.

26th August 2008, 12:20 AM	#1
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Here's a good thread on this topic from the "Classics": http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=tears

27th August 2008, 12:25 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Ganga-Jamni. When gold and silver are used together in a decoration, is called Ganga-Jamni. It is supposed to imitate the manner in which the muddy stream of the Ganges and the pure waters of the Jumna flow for some time together, side-by-side, but unmixed, at their junction below the fort at Allahabad. I don’t know if the two different colours on the chevron blades have the same meaning, or if the meaning is different.

27th August 2008, 04:17 PM	#5
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Only seen terars of the wounded with metal balls I think they're just deocrative maybe to show the smith's skill Ward

28th August 2008, 12:42 AM	#6
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	The few swords I have seen with these balls had very small balls, only a few mm in diameter. Less than 1/8th inch. Certainly not enough to affect the swinging of the blade. The channels in which they rode -- though small -- would seem to affect the integrity of the blade. I seem to remember a similar conversation with Phillip Tom.

28th August 2008, 12:44 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I once did measure one of the steel balls, and it measured 4 mm in diameter. What I don’t know is, if the original diameter was bigger, and the ball has been worn, not do I know if the number of balls were the same in the different sword blades having the tears of the wounded.