Moro / Borneo hybrid ?

Battara · 16th August 2008, 05:58 PM

VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

VVV · 16th August 2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

Of course there was. I have never doubted that the kampilan was used, and produced, in Borneo, Sulawesi and Timor among the Illanum migrants. There are a lot of evidence for that. But none for the kampilan being a Sea Dayak sword. Illanums are neither Sea Dayaks nor any other kind of Dayaks.
Shelford specifically classifies the Dayak parang in Sarawak. Not for instance the Moro swords or swords from other ethnic groups.

Michael

Maurice · 16th August 2008, 07:44 PM

Is there a good book which tells more about the Illanums? I find very little about them in the books I have, but I am very interested to learn more about them.

Regards,
Maurice

Battara · 17th August 2008, 03:52 AM

VVV, I now understand your point better - focus on the Sea Dayaks. Is it possible that they got kampilans from the Illanums?

Maurice, Illanums are a Moro tribe also known as the Maranao. At one time they ruled the seas as well as the northern part of Mindanao.

VVV · 17th August 2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

VVV, I now understand your point better - focus on the Sea Dayaks. Is it possible that they got kampilans from the Illanums?
[snip]

I have never seen pictures, or seen any other evidence, of that the kampilan ever was used by the Sea Dayaks. I assume that Stone mixed up the Illanums with the Sea Dayaks as both of them were pirates and sometimes sailed together. You have to remember that Stone never visited Borneo and his book is a summary of other books and articles at that time. Most often they didn't have a lot of pictures so that's why it was easy to mix up weapons based on written descriptions only. So you have to check his sources if something sounds strange in his descriptions or classifications.

Michael

Dajak · 17th August 2008, 09:35 AM

The same for the kampilan as we now it has no evidence that the type that Stone suggest come from the philipine .

The story goes that this type has indonesian origen and found in Celebes or Timor .

And don't forget even Shelford s is not complete he forgot to mention the parang sankit .

Ben

Battara · 17th August 2008, 07:03 PM

So then the other sources that Zonneveld used are also wrong and the kampilan is strictly a Moro weapon - is this right? (just trying to understand)

16th August 2008, 05:58 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	VVV, actually there may be a type of kampilan that was used by Illanum migrants in Borneo, also shown in Zonneveld.

16th August 2008, 07:44 PM	#3
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,456	Is there a good book which tells more about the Illanums? I find very little about them in the books I have, but I am very interested to learn more about them. Regards, Maurice

17th August 2008, 03:52 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	VVV, I now understand your point better - focus on the Sea Dayaks. Is it possible that they got kampilans from the Illanums? Maurice, Illanums are a Moro tribe also known as the Maranao. At one time they ruled the seas as well as the northern part of Mindanao.

17th August 2008, 09:35 AM	#6
Dajak Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 951	The same for the kampilan as we now it has no evidence that the type that Stone suggest come from the philipine . The story goes that this type has indonesian origen and found in Celebes or Timor . And don't forget even Shelford s is not complete he forgot to mention the parang sankit . Ben

17th August 2008, 07:03 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	So then the other sources that Zonneveld used are also wrong and the kampilan is strictly a Moro weapon - is this right? (just trying to understand)